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Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

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Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#111

Post by tradersam »

forthefuture wrote: post #93
drizzzler wrote: post #76

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys? For all the people out there saying, "I…

The best case scenario for Bitcoin is reaching a consistent price for the rest of its lifetime. That scenario means there's no reason to "invest" in it because ideally it would never change in value. Only people trying to cash out need people buying in. If you were really invested in the long term you'd rather people not buy in so you can buy more at a lower price. Bitcoin also has fees. The only reason the fees are…

I don't agree.

The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#112

Post by brownbat »

johnwheeler wrote: post #100
brownbat wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Chinese are highly speculative It's almost crazy how gambling and stock bubbles are nearly unheard of in Europe or America, precisely because of how seldom those peoples speculate. To think, if it wasn't for Jinan province's tulip mania, we'd barely understand the phenomenon of speculative bubbles. Or maybe it was Dandong, I forget.

The Chinese speculate more

My mistake, it's not like you were saying all Irish are drunks, or the Irish are the only drunks, just that the Irish like their whiskey more.

Since there are only 1.4 Billion Chinese, these sort of sweeping generalizations are perfectly reasonable.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#113

Post by deweller »

drizzzler wrote: post #76

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys? For all the people out there saying, "I…

The tone of this comment is harsh and inflammatory. But I agree with the sentiment.

The tech is genuinely interesting and certainly doesn't lack hype. That is usually a formula for positive comments on Hacker News. So I'm genuinely curious why so many users here are against Bitcoin.

Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat? Does it make people feel their own startup is somehow less relevant? Does it threaten the traditional VC funding model?

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#114

Post by parenthephobia »

drizzzler wrote: post #76

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys? For all the people out there saying, "I…

How are miners fees practically different from credit card companies' transaction fees?

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#115

Post by sillysaurus3 »

MBCook wrote: post #75
solotronics wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it useful? you can store and instantly send any arbitrary amount of money anywhere on the planet and it is the hardest (impossible?) for a government to steal it from you

I can send money around the world with it. You can too. Will it hold up when 10 million people want to do that per day? 100 million? Half 1 billion? I know it can work at niche scales (relative to total global financial transactions) but can it actually be scaled up to be a real player? Even if the block size was massively larger, say 100 MB, would enough transactions be able to be broadcasted around fast enough to b…

I think it can. People hate on the lightning network proposal, but I've read it and it seems like there's no reason it wouldn't work. BTC would then be used as a finalizing ledger, not for day to day transactions.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#116

Post by tradersam »

tunetine wrote: post #73
drizzzler wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just have a very hard time seeing how it's actually useful Why is it so hard to see? Whenever you send money somewhere electronically, a middleman takes a cut. With Bitcoin there is no middleman. It's that easy.

It's actually less useful. You already have banks doing the exact same thing for free, while insuring your money, you don't get hit 3% for transferring it into the bank, and there's interest accrued, not wildly shifting value where you might lose half in a few hours.

> You already have banks doing the exact same thing for free, while insuring your money, you don't get hit 3% for transferring it into the bank, and there's interest accrued

So much wrong with this statement.

First, not many banks in the U.S. do "the exact same thing for free", actually almost none do. Most ACH transfers take 1-5 days, instead of ~10 minutes with Bitcoin or ~15 seconds with Ethereum. Yes, I know about Zelle, but not all banks support that, and clearXchange isn't always same day, even.

Second, some services like Coinbase[1] insure your holdings, even while in crypto.

Third, almost all services that use ACH, like GDAX (Coinbase), Gemini, etc. don't do a 3% transfer fee through ACH, it's actually free. But it's next business day, like most ACH, where as crypto would've been an hour at most.

Lastly, some countries, like oh I don't know, Japan[2], have negative interest rates, so your money shrinks by the day instead of growing.

[1]:https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/166237...

[2]:https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/21/business/international/ja...

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#117

Post by omarchowdhury »

MBCook wrote: post #95
andy_ppp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the FUD you just wrote invalidate the utility I suggested? If, maybe, someday etc. Bitcoin could be worthless. This is very true but money, of any kind, is only worth what people believe it’s worth. And in case you didn’t know, cash is also used for illegal activity...

I'm trying to suggest that it isn't a proven store of value. Just because something has value today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. Gold has centuries of history behind it, Rolex has maybe 100 years. Cash is thousands of years old. Bitcoin has had a high value for a couple of years. I'm not trying to suggest it's Beanie Babies or Pokémon cards. Obviously those were never useful as real currency and bitcoin can buy thi…

According to a report by J.P. Morgan Chase, just 0.0002% of Overstock’s revenue last year were conducted in Bitcoin. Overstock announced BTC support 3 years ago, in 2014.

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/merchants-arent-accepting-bit...

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#118

Post by grizzles »

deweller wrote: post #113
drizzzler wrote: post #76

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys? For all the people out there saying, "I…

The tone of this comment is harsh and inflammatory. But I agree with the sentiment. The tech is genuinely interesting and certainly doesn't lack hype. That is usually a formula for positive comments on Hacker News. So I'm genuinely curious why so many users here are against Bitcoin. Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat? Does it make people feel their own startup is somehow less…

I don't like it because it's bad for the environment.

Eventually someone like Vanguard will come along and offer a blockchain with real value behind it. After this, all the hype around bitcoin will just look embarrassing in the aftermath.

The SEC was useful when information was hard to come by, but now it's just standing in the way of progress.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#119

Post by omarchowdhury »

cyphunk wrote: post #106
omarchowdhury wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. So I'm anyone. How am I going to know what your addresses are? Starting from where I am right now all the way over here. You did say anyone.

the first time you ever pay anyone for anything the probability that this person can determine your entire net worth is much much higher than if you were to use any other means of value exchange (Cash, credit, check, etc).

You're argument rests on the assumption that people are putting their entire, or close to entire net worth into BTC.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#120

Post by xiphias »

omarchowdhury wrote: post #103
mrb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has indeed appreciated more than any other investment in human history. In 7.5 years it went from $0.003 to $4900: a growth 1,600,000×. Imagine investing ten bucks and a few years later it is worth $16 million! For comparison: the founders seed round of Uber grew their investment 65,000×, tulip prices increased by at most 5,000× during tulip mania, some "best performing stocks" over the last century are repor…

It's contemplating these returns and seeing the price still going up that leads people to continue jumping in to buy at any price level. Is there an upper limit to this?

About 1000x value from now. That's when all fiat currencies hyperinflate. It's scary to think that it's not that far away, about 10-20 years from now if the crypto adoption trend continues.
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