ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#181

Post by lamp_book » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:48 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #164

lamp_book wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always point to rugby when this topic comes up, but there is no conclusive evidence that it is any safer. In fact, this study found that the risk of concussion in rugby was far higher (4.13 concussions per 1,000 athletic exposure hours vs 0.53 for American football) by pooling data from 13 previous studies: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-concussion-youth-sp... Of course there are always flaws, limita…

The key factor in that report though is that it concludes that "Concussion rates highest for kids in rugby, hockey and football". I'd guess its likely that American football as played in the NFL is a very different game to the one played by kids, and there might be virtually no correlation of actual risks. Rugby is also very different between kids and professionals of course - my 5 yr old plays ripper rugby which inv…

Even if there is no correlation of risks between the youth and professional levels of play (and I don't doubt that), parents steering their kids towards away from rugby, hockey, and football will eventually hemorrhage market share for those professional leagues in favor of safer sports.

We have flag football in the US for younger kids, sounds roughly analogous to ripper rugby.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#182

Post by mfringel » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

lancewiggs wrote: post #160

unethical_ban wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason rugby tackles are different: The goal is to stop the player. The difference between one meter and another is minimal. In football, inches matter for the downs. So the hits are blowouts to stop people as soon as possible.

There are many many more tackles in rugby and the repeated inches do matter. Great defensive teams like the All Blacks fight for every inch.

In rugby, except for a couple of lines on the field, one inch doesn't strictly matter more than another, within the bounds of the rules.

In american football, one inch anywhere on the field can make the difference between four more downs or having to kick the ball away.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#183

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

> Football is America's gladiator sport

The analogy goes deeper. We exempt the NFL from antitrust law [1]. We let it keep its feedstock players, i.e. college athletes, people who come from disproportionately low-income backgrounds, so poorly they go hungry [2]. For many, a sports scholarship seems like the only chance they have at a better life.

A minority reach semi-stardom, with a vanishing fraction of those achieving fame and wealth. But for all, the cost society charges is literally their minds.

[1] https://sportslaw.uslegal.com/antitrust-and-labor-law-issues...

[2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/21/304196202/hun...

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#184

Post by Brendinooo » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:54 PM UTC

yequalsx wrote: post #107

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just can't support the NFL. I'm not sure what the NFL does that's wrong. Their players get significant fame, are consenting adults, and get pay checks that many would trade even more of their health for. It is the college level, and especially the high school level, that I see the major problems at. When you have kids, or even people who aren't paid, risking their health it crosses a significant line. If college p…

Would you be OK allowing two consenting adults to fight to the death for pay? Most people would not be for allowing this. A lot of people are willing to work in very risky environments because they feel they have no alternative. Should companies be allowed to have dangerous work environments because there are people desperate enough to be willing to work in them?

I don't think this is a black-and-white kind of area. Plenty of miners felt a lot of pride in their work and wouldn't have given it up if they didn't have to, but mining is inherently more dangerous than sitting at a desk.

So, while companies should have workers' comp and provide helmets on the job, it doesn't mean that the risk needs to be zero. Dangerous jobs tend to be well-compensated, so it either comes down to risk tolerance or cultural factors (something like "my father was a miner and I live in coal country") more than desperation.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#185

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #129

I love watching football and each year I look forward to the start of football season. It's amazing game to watch and when played by great players, exceedingly entertaining and exciting. I'm not blind to the research about what it does to the players brains but my reaction is the reverse of what I'm reading from most in this thread: I'm watching more football than ever . I think it's only a matter of time till the ga…

[deleted]

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#186

Post by dsacco » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

kpwags wrote: post #100

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just can't support the NFL. I'm not sure what the NFL does that's wrong. Their players get significant fame, are consenting adults, and get pay checks that many would trade even more of their health for. It is the college level, and especially the high school level, that I see the major problems at. When you have kids, or even people who aren't paid, risking their health it crosses a significant line. If college p…

My main issues with the NFL and why I can't support them are 1) NFL knew about the risks and hid them and in some cases deliberately deceived the players about said risks. I seem to recall that only a couple years ago the NFL told the players that with adequate rest, there will be no long-lasting effects from a concussion -- something that has been shown to not be the case. 2) The NFL will go after anyone who release…

Can you provide a few examples of the NFL going after doctors and scientists, and clarify what that means?

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#187

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #50

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

>Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head.

Could it? I wonder how many people would continue to watch hockey if fights weren't essentially sanctioned as a part of the game. I imagine only the diehards as it's not the most entertaining sport in the world...

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#188

Post by elicash » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

This is why I don't put a cover on my iPhone. Never dropped it.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#189

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

planteen wrote: post #175

Waterluvian wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey can be a beautiful game of finesse, speed, and precision. It could absolutely be re-worked. Football is fundamentally flawed. Many positions exist entirely because it's rough and violent. Players who never touch the football in a well played game.

Football can also be played with flags or where players are not tackled by saying the play is over when momentum is stopped. Countless intramural and pickup games are played like this every day. And you still have an offensive line in setup, depending on the number of players.

Aaaaand viewership drops 90%.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#190

Post by ancientworldnow » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

amiramir wrote: post #113

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

Rugby has also included head injury assessments (HIA) into its laws. They sports governing body introduced HIAs in 2012 and they have been getting more stringent over the years. At he elite level a player who is suspected of having taken a significant knock to the head can be substituted off the field for 10 minutes to be assessed by a doctor. The referee, assistant referees, sideline medics or the television match o…

The NFL actually has very similar rules involving suspected head injuries though in practice they seem arbitrarily enforced - especially if it involves a key player.