ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#21

Post by cmurf » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

NegativeLatency wrote: post #13

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

Is rugby safer? I'd actually be interested in watching rugby on tv. Never been a fan of football due to all the stopping and setting up plays, makes the game move too slowly to be interesting.

The scrum is definitely not good, and is the main source of degenerative spinal injuries. The bulk of other injuries are muscular (sprains, pulls) and bruises. The rules of the game enforce a direction of play that makes head on attacks far less (maybe even none) likely than American football. But it's still a brutal sport with lasting repetitive use injuries - they just don't tend to be head injuries as much.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#22

Post by digikata » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #6

What about the sponsorship of daredevil sports like free climbing, wing suits, etc., by consumer companies like GoPro and Redbull. I feel that we are supporting these companies with our purchases, and then they in turn create social media spectacles by giving these people an incentive to do dangerous stunts. Recently a wingsuit daredevil died while livestreaming on Facebook, watched by his young daughter and wife. It…

It's something of a difference when the risk is personal with personal preparation. Vs Football as a sport where there is this encouragement of hits between teams. One could consider that the individual Football players are informed of the risks just like the redbull stuntpeople, but there is this built in competitive, direct human-vs-human structure in Football that is going to drive escalation of risk differently than stunts.

Of course one could say also that there is escalation between stunt spectacles to make them bigger and push more boundaries - but again it's a little different, the events are individual and more spaced out then the game-to-game constant and maybe risk-desensitizing schedule of Football.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#23

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

The other difference is rugby limits the contact to the guy carrying the ball to a greater degree than American football. In the US version, the majority of players on the field will have contact on the majority of plays.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#24

Post by kpwags » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

Good for him.

I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL.

I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be in a minority, but I'd have no issue if the NHL eliminates fighting altogether), and the big hits aren't why I watch...I enjoy the stick work, the dangling and skills getting to the net. I can also appreciate that the NHL does seem to be doing a better job at cracking down on the dirty hits.

I also play hockey (in a non-check beer league) and am very aware about the risks. I'm also an adult who is old and mature enough to accept these risks. I don't know how much that can be said for the elementary/middle/high school kids playing sports like hockey and football.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#25

Post by dpeck » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

Jesus_Jones wrote: post #7

6stringmerc wrote: post #3

Personally, I applaud his candor and backing it up by leaving association with the sport as we know it. I have shared the change of mentality from "Oh wow!" big-hit, Bill Romanowski/Ronnie Lott type viciousness to, well, cringing. Not to shy away from MMA or Boxing or Hockey - trauma is trauma - but the change feels like something I've witnessed in my lifetime. With a personal twist, I've never been able to play due…

I'm about in the same position. As a middle aged guy, the past 10 years I have watched more and more nfl football, and I'm becoming increasingly leary. I hate seeing a big hit. Take that part out and I can continue to watch. But it's hard to see how they can take the hitting out, it's such a part of the game.

Big hits in general aren't what is causing the long term injury. CTE seems to disproportionately effect linemen that seldom experience a "big hit" but hundreds of small impacts every day during practice and play.

The brain injury is most concerning, rules can adjust and technology gets better to mitigate the larger impacts, and outside of outlier catastrophic events I think many who have played will trade worn out joints and broken fingers for the experience of playing the greatest of team sports at the sub division 1* level but the mental harm is something entirely different and seems unlikely to be able to be fixed with it being anything like the gridiron football that's been played to this point.

*Caveat on level because D1 and above you're making all sorts of sacrifices and trade offs that aren't something those outside of it can appreciate or even understand.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#26

Post by ghaff » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

NegativeLatency wrote: post #13

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

Is rugby safer? I'd actually be interested in watching rugby on tv. Never been a fan of football due to all the stopping and setting up plays, makes the game move too slowly to be interesting.

>Is rugby safer?

The short answer is almost certainly yes but the patterns of injury are different. Rugby also has issues with concussions, although less so than American football. The bigger problem is generally considered to be spinal injuries in scrums.

Unfortunately it's hard to catch much rugby on TV in the US. (I assume there are special packages you can subscribe to but I don't care that much.)

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#27

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

NegativeLatency wrote: post #13

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

Is rugby safer? I'd actually be interested in watching rugby on tv. Never been a fan of football due to all the stopping and setting up plays, makes the game move too slowly to be interesting.

Rugby is occasionally on TV in the US. NBC Sports carries some events. Or, if you want a quick fix, look for a sevens tournament on YouTube (US has a collegiate championship, there's the Olympics, and a few major international). The games are short and fast paced, so easily consumed.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#28

Post by chasd00 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

Big hits and injuries aren't new to American Football. Some of hardest hits ever, as judged by other players, can only be seen in old black and white footage. After a lifetime of being front and center to the game he's only now walking away?

If any analyst, or anyone, should be walking away from a sport it should be boxing. In boxing giving your opponent a concussion and rendering them unconscious is a decisive victory and the most important statistic for ranking.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#29

Post by Bud » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #14

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

I don't think the post is depressing and masochistic. I think football fans are depressed masochists, and they get their temporary fix with vicarious participation in a gladiator sport. The more fans pay for tickets, the more contracts go up in price, the more justification for violence they feel entitled to receive. OH, these guys are getting paid a million bucks at least, I would do that!

Except they aren't getting paid a million bucks.

College football (and even high school football) account for a very large slice of all football revenue. NCAA football is a multi-billion-dollar business.

Those athletes are spending 50% or even more than 50% of their entire productive football careers playing college ball, they are incurring a very high risk for permanent brain injury, and they are NOT getting paid. (Do these figures sound off? Go look up the average career length of NFL running backs.)

Yes, yes, they get a "free education", but many or most of these guys aren't actually well-suited to college-level academic work anyway, and a college degree isn't of as much use if you die at 40 (or commit suicide in your late 20s) from horrific brain injuries.

They should be getting paid. Bigtime. Paid a lot. Everyone else involved with college football is getting paid; just not the players, the ones who are taking all the risk and doing all the real work.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#30

Post by cmurf » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

Jesus_Jones wrote: post #9

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

Is violent sport an inherent part of a country's psychic makeup? Mexico has wrestling? What about Bermuda?

I think violence is an inherent part of being a primate. It needs some kind of outlet, be it preemptive wars of choice or civil wars, as the animal gets a bit smarter then there are gladiator games, still pretty vicious but structured, and the smarter ape man gets the more structure and skill and preserving the life of the sportsman the rules get. It's the spectators that drive the structuring every bit as much as the owners. The more debased the spectators are, the more violence persists in the sport.

So yeah blame the owners for knowing about football's lifelong consequences before and after the discovery of CTE, but that it persists is squarely on the spectators who keep paying for it.