Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#461

Post by kbenson » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #447

kbenson wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It needn't be corporate censorship to have the exact same outcome. If Google is upset with an article, or thinks it's not fairly representing all sides, they are going to contact the organization and say so. They don't have to threaten removing funding, the indication that they were unhappy could have been impetus enough for Slaughter to act proactively. Even if Google was thinking of removing funding, there's nothin…

> there's nothing wrong with that either (they have the right to fund or not fund what they want) There is a limit to this. For example, I have the right to ask you for money. I have the right to report or not report a crime I saw you commit. But if I tie those two activities together, it becomes blackmail and is illegal, despite no single action being wrong on its own. Google has a lot of power, and they are abusing…

> > there's nothing wrong with that either (they have the right to fund or not fund what they want)

> There is a limit to this.

Yes, that would be why the words immediately following what you quoted were "The problem is if Google dictated Slaughter's actions".

> For example, I have the right to ask you for money. I have the right to report or not report a crime I saw you commit. But if I tie those two activities together, it becomes blackmail and is illegal, despite no single action being wrong on its own.

No,it becomes blackmail when one action is dependent on the other. Two actions occurring in proximity to each other do not mean they are linked. It's entirely possible the crime wasn't known about until after someone was asked for money.

This is part of the problem. People are stuck in the "if there's smoke, there's fire" mindset, and we aren't sure if we're just seeing fog.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#462

Post by jgalt212 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #442

intended wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key reason. Its the market at work - at some point the marginal advantage of investing even a little in lobbying results in more X, (where X can be anything from power to profit). And in a competitive scenario, SOMEONE will do it. Not to mention Even a unhappy incumbent can initiate a lobbying strategy. People in the comments seem to focus a lot on google itself, but this is the way the game is played. It…

> Its the market at work Sounds like an example of Market Failure

Agreed. It's institutionalized crony capitalism.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#463

Post by ThomPete » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

wodenokoto wrote: post #143

ThomPete wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEPOs and AE get approximately the same airtime. I don't like any one them but claiming that somehow CEPOS gets more simply isn't supported by evidence. Furthermore they get less and less time because they do more and more lobbying. http://www.altinget.dk/civilsamfund/artikel/taenketanke-faar...

I'm claiming CEPOS get more airtime than me, because unlike me, they are taken seriously :)

Well Linse gets more airtime than you (and me) hardly a useful metric.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#464

Post by specialist » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 5:49 PM UTC

milcron wrote: post #313

specialist wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics." I note that you said "corporate" vs "capital(ism)". Thank you for making the distinction. Most liberals I hang with favor a Sander-esque version of capitalism meets socialism. Balancing capitalism (ready access to capital), competition, open markets with a strong safety net and democracy. Balancing rewarding achievement and merit with ensuring…

Related link dump Bernie Sanders and the Nordic countries are Social Democrats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistributi…

Belated response. Thank you for the links, excerpts. Been pondering.

My issue is inequity, not capitalism. So I don't think I'm a Democratic Socialist.

I'd even be okay with corporations if they were put back into their place. Corporations are not people, natural or otherwise. They should only exist by charter, in the service of society. The current corporatism idealogy (Freedom Markets[tm]) is nutty making.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#465

Post by SerLava » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #457

sageikosa wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking investment markets, not philanthropic giving markets. Any think tank is competitively attempting to gain funds to stay afloat. Some do this by lobbying for grants, some by soliciting private donations. But there's a finite amount of capacity to fund think tanks regardless of the source of income. Google can certainly find other think tanks they like better.

I can get behind this description. Though it does mean that even the most communist and/or totalitarian governments have internal markets if source-agnostic-budget counts. I'm not sure how people with an anti-capitalist ideological bent would respond to that framing.

They probably wouldn't like it, but a market is a good way to describe those types of transactional backroom deal.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#466

Post by thecrazyone » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #442

intended wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key reason. Its the market at work - at some point the marginal advantage of investing even a little in lobbying results in more X, (where X can be anything from power to profit). And in a competitive scenario, SOMEONE will do it. Not to mention Even a unhappy incumbent can initiate a lobbying strategy. People in the comments seem to focus a lot on google itself, but this is the way the game is played. It…

> Its the market at work Sounds like an example of Market Failure

How's it a market failure (markets not working properly) when bad regulation/ regulator regime is to blame. One should properly term it as 'Government Failure', don't you think so?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#467

Post by rhizome » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:45 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #314

rhizome wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but that's in a bad-faith reply to guelo, who was the one trying to tell us "how it really is." Presumably because we're all dumb or watching the wrong news sources or something.

> a bad-faith reply to guelo, who was the one trying to tell us "how it really is." Please explain to me how the argument is made in bad faith. You're characterizing their comment in this way because you disagree with their statement, you even go so far as to speculate on a cynical internal thought stream regarding their motivations for posting. To me, it reads like they are making an earnest argument, even if the rh…

root_axis' reply is what I was calling bad faith:

"Castigating someone else's opinions as the destruction of open discussion is the height of irony."

This is putting words into kobeya's comment, which was about discourse, not discussion.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#468

Post by thejynxed » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

tristram_shandy wrote: post #425

turk183 wrote: post #39

I just spent the better part of a week getting myself off of GMail. I'm still using Chrome at work for development, but have Brave browser for personal use now. I'm using DuckDuckGo for searches. I have an iPhone, but honestly, I don't trust Apple to not act like total dumbasses and so I am now lamenting the consolidation in the smart phone space. Google and these other companies are blowing themselves up over idioti…

There's a lot of us, apparently, who independently came to the same conclusion at the same time. My YouTube account is deleted, my Google+ page is deleted, my emails are wiped. There's an anti-trust suit against Google looming. The only possible challenge to Google's power is nation states; not individuals, not startups, and not even other large tech firms. Like any corporate entity (i.e. a sociopath), they'll inevit…

They already perform censorship of materials. Even if you don't take child porn/"Pirate Bay" type stuff into account, Google removes/blocks/filters out an enormous amount of content in the forms of images, videos, audio, and printed words.

Unfortunately for me, I am tied into their ecosystem in such a way that I can't remove myself, because too many work-required and other accounts use Google-provided solutions, and it is required by clients or whatnot. Even my tv and blu-ray player are powered by Android.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#469

Post by thejynxed » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #108

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, bear in mind, the US and the EU effectively can only mandate how Google operates as long as it does business there. So both the US and the EU have the ability to demand Google be broken up, but it will be up to Google, as an international entity, whether they want to leave the territory that orders it or comply to the extent that the regulator in a sovereign territory is appeased. See also, the recent Canadian…

You have to remember, though, that these aren’t small national governments. If Google really pissed off the EU, or US, they could simply force all banks to freeze Google’s assets, and seize them. This has worked in the past, and can be used again.

If the EU and US really pissed off Google, imagine the things that would start appearing in news centers all over the world that Google has stashed away on storage drives in some backroom server.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#470

Post by thejynxed » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:42 PM UTC

fish_fan wrote: post #385

wfo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By active and loud anti-corporate voices do you mean the pro-corporate liberal party, the pro-corporate conservative party, the corporate-owned TV media or the pro-corporate mainstream newspapers? There are anti corporate voices like e.g. Chomsky, Sanders, and they all have a couple of characteristics in common: they are ignored by the powers that be. They are without platforms, and they are without power.

> There are anti corporate voices like e.g. Chomsky, Sanders, and they all have a couple of characteristics in common: they are ignored by the powers that be. They are without platforms, and they are without power. Thankfully in the US the people have a lot of power, and Sanders is active in politics no matter how much the "powers that be" attempt to dismiss him. Warren is also anti-corporate, though I'll admit I don…

It's easy to ignore because even Sanders proved himself a sellout in the end, and the people who control the purse strings similarly don't pay him or his ilk any real attention, because they have the power to stop him or anyone like him from doing anything substantial.