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Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

theguardian.com

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Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#71

Post by icebraining »

isostatic wrote: post #60
icebraining wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a time of crisis, do farmers and doctors need to work for free to guarantee the human rights of others? How about Amazon warehouse workers? Yes, as they have always done. It's called paying taxes. In my country, the media even underlines that every year by calculating how many days the average worker does "for free" (ie, to pay the various taxes), and on that day, counting from January 1st, they announce it on TV…

Yet they fail to count when you stop living for free, when society stops paying for your peace and security. That happens in the exact same second.

I can't decode what you're saying, sorry.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#72

Post by gnaritas »

djschnei wrote: post #62
gnaritas wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just being pedantic about what the word right should mean; it's silly. Rights are whatever society agrees them to be, that's it. It's an ever changing mutable list of what people agree to respect, nothing more and nothing less.

Don't say that like it's some long running historical understanding of what the word "right" means. If that is now the definition, it's a new definition much more ambiguous than the old. A right used to mean something that was passed to you by 'your creator' because of your humanity. A right wasn't something someone else could provide, it was only something we could all defend. Life, liberty, property. Not the work o…

It's not remotely new.

> A right used to mean something that was passed to you by 'your creator' because of your humanity.

No, words don't work that way. The word has always meant both of those things, some people like to use the word that way, and others have always used it in other ways because get this... words have multiple meanings and always have. There was never a time where what you said is true, you're romanticizing and simplify the past as if back then everyone just agree. Guess what, they didn't.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#73

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

traverseda wrote: post #20
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool When are you going to charge Google/Twitter/Facebook/Reddit for banning speech that they don't like on the Internet? Is Free Speech a human right according to UN? Is criticism of religion, or ideology, included in that right?

I presumed this wouldn't apply, but article 19 does look interesting. """ Article 19 Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. """ There may actually be a case for the US needing to change their laws to extend free-speech protections…

EFF already is: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/09/youtubes-censorship-an...

Obama Administration supported banning criticism of Islam: https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/un-adopts-religious-int...

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#74

Post by gnaritas »

lliamander wrote: post #66
gnaritas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that _rights_ ought to be things that, in the absence of a society, you already _have_. That's simply just an absurd and frankly silly point. Stop arguing about what words should mean and pay attention to the message people are communicating. Rights are whatever society agrees they are, it's as simple as that, nothing more and nothing less; no rights are inherent. There is not "should", there is only w…

If rights a merely a social contract, then what is absurd about trying to negotiate the terms of that contract? The parent's definition of rights may not be what people often mean; that doesn't mean their definition isn't useful.

> then what is absurd about trying to negotiate the terms of that contract?

Nothing, that's rather the point I'm making, rights are not inherent, they are social agreements and are thus always up for renegotiation. You are agreeing with me.

That's not what the OP is doing, the OP is trying to claim something isn't a right because it doesn't fit his definition of the word, he's pulling a no true Scottsman on a thing saying it's not a right even though society agrees it is.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#75

Post by icebraining »

sol_remmy wrote: post #30

When does the UN get off its high horse? It requires governments to meet this new expensive human right but does it provide funding - of course not! If the United Nations decides [x] is a human right, than what are the consequences to civil servants for not providing that human right? Are they labeled human rights abusers ? Is a judge a human right abuser if he takes away internet access from a sex offender?

In what way, precisely, do you see the UN requiring governments to do much of anything, let alone meet this human right?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#76

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

a_diplomat wrote: post #13
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool When are you going to charge Google/Twitter/Facebook/Reddit for banning speech that they don't like on the Internet? Is Free Speech a human right according to UN? Is criticism of religion, or ideology, included in that right?

1) That would be a question for US courts, as all those companies are based in the us. 2) Yes. 3) Yes.

> 3) Yes

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/un-adopts-religious-int...

How should I trust your words now?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#77

Post by flubert »

bufbupa wrote: post #52
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Carlin on Rights vs. Privileges. https://youtu.be/gaa9iw85tW8?t=261

This dialog is tangential at best. Sure, if you want to call them privileges instead of rights because they are inherently violable, go ahead, but everyone else will refer to them as rights because its the common nomenclature. The idea of a right is that governments must work to secure them for its people. To redirect back to the parent post: if you don't want to call them rights, do you think internet access should…

>The idea of a right is that governments must work to secure them for its people.

>If so, how do you propose that privilege be fulfilled in rural communities that currently don't have internet access?

I think a lot of the noise around this issue comes down to not clearly delineating between positive and negative rights:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=positive+vs.+negative+rights

...in the American tradition, "internet access as a right" means that that others (government, etc.) can't deprive you of whatever internet access you happen to have. Whereas other traditions interpret "internet access as a right" as something that the community needs to provide to individuals.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#78

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

burkaman wrote: post #16
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool When are you going to charge Google/Twitter/Facebook/Reddit for banning speech that they don't like on the Internet? Is Free Speech a human right according to UN? Is criticism of religion, or ideology, included in that right?

Who do you imagine you're talking to?

A UN diplomat who is negotiating laws.

Am I wrong?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#79

Post by [deleted] »

flubert wrote: post #67
Joeri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a natural right. You don't have a natural right to life, just head out into the wilderness and see how much nature cares about your natural right to become certain of that. All rights are social covenants provided by fellow humans.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=natural+rights

[deleted]

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#80

Post by wu-ikkyu »

ithilglin909 wrote: post #64

Well, I guess I shouldn’t have to pay for it then. Seriously, can we start being a little more sparing in the use of the word “right”? What was once a strong word is quickly becoming meaningless political jargon.

"Freedom of the press" doesn't mean you don't have to pay for printing presses
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