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Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

theguardian.com

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Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#51

Post by clarry »

sol_remmy wrote: post #30

When does the UN get off its high horse? It requires governments to meet this new expensive human right but does it provide funding - of course not! If the United Nations decides [x] is a human right, than what are the consequences to civil servants for not providing that human right? Are they labeled human rights abusers ? Is a judge a human right abuser if he takes away internet access from a sex offender?

> Is a judge a human right abuser if he takes away internet access from a sex offender?

Yes.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#52

Post by bufbupa »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #8
bischofs wrote: post #2

I don't think internet access is a human right, a simple test is if the internet goes down are my rights being violated? Can you really put this in the same category as the right to pursue happiness or health? or the right to defend yourself? Classifying everything as a right is super fun and feels important but it actually takes away from the actual human rights. Health care is another example - do you have the righ…

George Carlin on Rights vs. Privileges. https://youtu.be/gaa9iw85tW8?t=261

This dialog is tangential at best. Sure, if you want to call them privileges instead of rights because they are inherently violable, go ahead, but everyone else will refer to them as rights because its the common nomenclature. The idea of a right is that governments must work to secure them for its people.

To redirect back to the parent post: if you don't want to call them rights, do you think internet access should be an essential privilege that governments must secure for their people? If so, how do you propose that privilege be fulfilled in rural communities that currently don't have internet access? It would seem to be a fundamental violation of the governmental charter not to provide it, and who would be held accountable for that violation?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#53

Post by gipp »

sidlls wrote: post #36
gipp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that _rights_ ought to be things that, in the absence of a society, you already _have_. (Life, liberty, right to property, etc) They are things that a just society is obligated to not take _away_ from you. Things that a just and wealthy society should be able to provide _for_ its citizens (health care, economic security, etc), are laudable and highly important goals. They are not rights though -- not bec…

In the absence of society there are no such things as "rights" and most especially the ones you identified. In fact, in nature it's quite common for any or all of those things to be taken away.

> in nature it's quite common for any or all of those things to be taken away

Not by people, is the point. Rights only apply in terms of humans and human society, obviously.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#54

Post by lr4444lr »

nemo44x wrote: post #38
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair access to the internet, however, feels to me more like a right. If the government shuts down cellular internet access at protest sites, it feels like a violation of rights.

I disagree. The spectrum is owned by the public which is managed by an elected government of the people. If a protest were to be judged by elected officials, or those appointed by them, to be in danger of harming citizens then taking actions like blocking access to the wireless spectrum for communication and organization purposes would be within the public good. I should think they would explain why this decision was…

No offense, but, I would never want you in any position of power over me.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#55

Post by rayiner »

bischofs wrote: post #2

I don't think internet access is a human right, a simple test is if the internet goes down are my rights being violated? Can you really put this in the same category as the right to pursue happiness or health? or the right to defend yourself? Classifying everything as a right is super fun and feels important but it actually takes away from the actual human rights. Health care is another example - do you have the righ…

You could view it as a form of the right to assemble in the US constitution. The government doesn't have to give you a place to assemble, your rights aren't violated if your meeting venue is double booked, etc. But the government can't categorically preclude you from meeting.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#56

Post by scarmig »

nemo44x wrote: post #38
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair access to the internet, however, feels to me more like a right. If the government shuts down cellular internet access at protest sites, it feels like a violation of rights.

I disagree. The spectrum is owned by the public which is managed by an elected government of the people. If a protest were to be judged by elected officials, or those appointed by them, to be in danger of harming citizens then taking actions like blocking access to the wireless spectrum for communication and organization purposes would be within the public good. I should think they would explain why this decision was…

Public squares are also owned by the public and managed by the government. Does that mean the government should be able to pick and choose which viewpoints are valid enough to use the public square, for the sake of the public good?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#57

Post by dqpb »

bkeroack wrote: post #32
quirkot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only things that can be "human rights" are the things a society can consistently provide for just about everyone. The "human right" nomenclature just means we're going to spend some effort to push it from 98% to 100%.

Human rights aren't "provided" to you. You are born with them and they can never be taken away, only violated by thugs and tyrants.

No, there is no such thing. We are born with mirror neurons, empathy, instincts for cooperation perhaps, but it doesn't make sense to say you are born with rights. Rights are a social construct.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#58

Post by kazinator »

bischofs wrote: post #2

I don't think internet access is a human right, a simple test is if the internet goes down are my rights being violated? Can you really put this in the same category as the right to pursue happiness or health? or the right to defend yourself? Classifying everything as a right is super fun and feels important but it actually takes away from the actual human rights. Health care is another example - do you have the righ…

> a simple test is if the internet goes down are my rights being violated?

Depends; is someone doing it on purpose so that you don't have access, or it is a genuine equipment failure?

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#59

Post by lr4444lr »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #18
bischofs wrote: post #2

I don't think internet access is a human right, a simple test is if the internet goes down are my rights being violated? Can you really put this in the same category as the right to pursue happiness or health? or the right to defend yourself? Classifying everything as a right is super fun and feels important but it actually takes away from the actual human rights. Health care is another example - do you have the righ…

Food or shelter are not produced for free either, and they are still widely accepted human rights. Of course it's clear that one cannot just go and label arbitrarily expensive things as human rights, but of course guaranteeing human rights can take a nontrivial amount of work. This does not mean anyone should "work for free", states and other administrations are supposed to guarantee human rights and they can pay for…

The key is in the word "access". In most countries, there is always _access_ to food or shelter through social services on a basis of immediate need, but not long term property rights over it or the resources to secure it long term.

Re: Internet access is now a basic human right (2016)

#60

Post by isostatic »

icebraining wrote: post #27
sol_remmy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not mean anyone should "work for free", states and other administrations are supposed to guarantee human rights and they can pay for that work. What about in a country in crisis like Venezuela with no money to afford human rights? In a time of crisis, do farmers and doctors need to work for free to guarantee the human rights of others? How about Amazon warehouse workers?

In a time of crisis, do farmers and doctors need to work for free to guarantee the human rights of others? How about Amazon warehouse workers? Yes, as they have always done. It's called paying taxes. In my country, the media even underlines that every year by calculating how many days the average worker does "for free" (ie, to pay the various taxes), and on that day, counting from January 1st, they announce it on TV…

Yet they fail to count when you stop living for free, when society stops paying for your peace and security. That happens in the exact same second.
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