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Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

theintercept.com

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Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#21

Post by sctb »

ackfoo wrote: post #2

Harvey was a hurricane. It could have occurred anywhere on the Gulf Coast. There is no direct relationship between climate change and any particular named storm. To argue otherwise is to destroy one's credibility. The problems that exacerbated the disaster of Harvey are indeed linked to climate change, but not in the simple-minded way that Naomi Klein makes out. The economic factors that lead to high-density construc…

We're trying to have a thoughtful conversation here. Name calling, handwavey dismissals, and provocation just start flamewars. Please aim for a higher standard so we can have a better chance at a substantive discussion.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#22

Post by dogruck »

Anyone have proof that man's actions have significantly contributed to this storm's catastrophic power?

The title feels like political click bait, to me. How about proactively preparing for these events?

If you tell me, "there's no way we could prepare" I'll tell you "there's no way we can do whatever you think is required to meaningfully alter our supposed impact on the climate."

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#23

Post by mercurysmessage »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #10
ackfoo wrote: post #2

Harvey was a hurricane. It could have occurred anywhere on the Gulf Coast. There is no direct relationship between climate change and any particular named storm. To argue otherwise is to destroy one's credibility. The problems that exacerbated the disaster of Harvey are indeed linked to climate change, but not in the simple-minded way that Naomi Klein makes out. The economic factors that lead to high-density construc…

> stop having babies Most of the west has already drastically reduced the number of babies. All that happened is we were told we need immigration instead.

I don't know why you insist on spreading this ignorance all over HN, this really isn't the place for your rhetoric.

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#24

Post by lucb1e »

Disappointing article. It starts with "don't wait until the event and hype are past, but talk about climate change now. The fact that there are record-breaking events so often isn't normal." Then it continues to elaborate on politics, politics and politics. So, how abnormal is it? How often should we expect record-breaking events? If I remember correctly, the world was warming up already as part of its natural cycle. Maybe these record-breaking events are quite normal in this period.

I don't think so, and I think denying climate change is a dumb thing, but an article that spends ten paragraphs on politics with no exploration of any evidence is just useless and only fuels the political side of the discussion without convincing anyone. My dad for example cares little about this, and numbers like "three degrees Celsius worldwide over a decade" don't sound like much, but the number of times we hear "record-breaking event" on the news is a very tangible thing that could have been a good argument. But alas.

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#25

Post by mcot2 »

I'm interested in sea level rise and warmer oceans as direct catalysts for more powerful storms with larger impacts occurring more frequently. It seems like our models for predicting major hurricane events may be flawed.

In Harvey's case there was an intensification in the last day or so before landfall that caught many experts by surprise. It also came back out to sea and was able to reenergize stronger and faster in the warmer waters. These are troubling details that make me question our grasp on predicting the occurrence and strength of these types of storms.

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#26

Post by rocqua »

> Which means there is a moral imperative for informed, caring people to name the real root causes behind this crisis — connecting the dots between climate pollution, systemic racism, underfunding of social services, and overfunding of police.

I see the obvious relevance of climate change and perhaps social services, but I don't see how systemic racism is a factor in the tragedy of the storm Harvey. Certainly, the article provides no context.

For rebuilding, it is likely to be an issue, but it is almost defeatist to assume ahead of time and include it in the current tragedy.

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#27

Post by DarkKomunalec »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #23
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop having babies Most of the west has already drastically reduced the number of babies. All that happened is we were told we need immigration instead.

I don't know why you insist on spreading this ignorance all over HN, this really isn't the place for your rhetoric.

Ignorance? Well, please point out where I made an error - I'd be happy to correct it.

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#28

Post by [deleted] »

toss892625 wrote: post #3
ackfoo wrote: post #2

Harvey was a hurricane. It could have occurred anywhere on the Gulf Coast. There is no direct relationship between climate change and any particular named storm. To argue otherwise is to destroy one's credibility. The problems that exacerbated the disaster of Harvey are indeed linked to climate change, but not in the simple-minded way that Naomi Klein makes out. The economic factors that lead to high-density construc…

'market-driven urban planning practices' National Flood Insurance Program subsidizes building in flood-prone areas. Doesn't sound very market-driven to me.

[deleted]

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#29

Post by chiph »

emodendroket wrote: post #17
chiph wrote: post #14

Climate change is the most likely reason behind rising sea levels, however, Houston is far enough inland to not have gotten any storm surge. What happened was the storm stalled over top of the city instead of moving on through. This meant that it picked up water on the south-east side of the storm and dropped it on the north-west side, right over the neighborhoods. And did it over a couple of days. What it was .. was…

It was my understanding that climate change made events like hurricanes and extreme rainfall more likely.

Perhaps not more likely, but since they run on heat, hurricanes could possibly become stronger in the future. I haven't seen any articles which reference research on this, as it's hard to filter out the ones with bias (in either direction).

Re: Harvey Didn't Come Out of the Blue. Now Is the Time to Talk about Climate Change

#30

Post by DennisP »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #19

Two things to note here: - Naomi Klein is a well-known leftist activist and author with a clear agenda. Take what she writes with a grain of salt. - Yes, it's important to think about climate change and how it may impact weather patterns. But no serious climate scientist would ever credit singular weather events to global climate trends, which take decades to evolve. It's lazy to use a hurricane to bolster climate ch…

This is like saying it's lazy to use lung cancer cases to bolster arguments against smoking, since there's no way to prove that a particular case of cancer was caused by smoking.
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