Live data from Hacker News

We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

theguardian.com

121–130 of 237 posts

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#121
post #18

I think a lot of the "oh my gosh nationalisation is such an awful idea" / "not in my free society" comments are missing the point. I too believe nationalisation is a bad idea in this case , but given the enormous reaction it would bring, can you imagine how awful the situation appears to be from the authors (any many other non-tech-bubble) peoples perspective to even contemplate such a thing? Let alone write an opini…

You seem to be saying there's a high threshold for extreme opinions to be published in the Guardian, so the fact that someone wrote such an article suggests that there is a genuine problem that needs to be taken seriously. Guardian writers do not live inside a "bubble" and therefore, there is inherent merit to what they write. I wonder how often you actually read the Guardian, which is famous for having wildly extrem…

> "Ask Hadley: Why do older people hate millennials so much?"

Disclosure: Guardian reader here. I remember reading the Hadley Freemen [1] article cited here, finding it amusing at the time, so googled it [2] to remind myself what it said. On re-reading, I still find it quite amusing. It includes observations such as “Older people have always found youngsters irritating, self-entitled and arrogant, because young people are irritating, self-entitled and arrogant. That’s part of the joy of being young, and part of the compensation of getting older is you can snuggle on down in your smug eiderdown of condescension about The Youth Today.” The concluding para says “So, in conclusion, don’t feel attacked, young people: older people were always grumpy with the younger generation. And to all the 55- to 64-year-olds out there? Maybe give all that boob Googling a rest, OK? Take a tip from your kids on this”. To me, the article is a plea for tolerance of the young by the old, pointing out the quirks of both generations.

More widely, I’ll agree that The Guardian does have regular columns written by activists such as George Monbiot [3], and its writers may disagree with or explicitly criticise some of The Guardian’s peer rivals, such as the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, etc. But, personally, I can’t accept it as the Breitbart of the Left.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_Freeman

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/aug/21/ask-hadley-o...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#122
post #17

Actually, I think behind the nationalisation idea, which doesn't seem workable given the circumstances, there's an interesting thought: these companies are sitting on basic infrastructure so instead of treating them like other companies, perhaps we should treat them like utilities. Note that this piece appears in The Guardian. I don't know how it works in the US, but I'm of the impression that in many European countr…

> we should treat them like utilities.

As these are large organizations involved in a variety of activities, it might be possible to separate the infrastructure parts into a strictly regulated utility. Google Search becoming a utility doesn't have to involve stuff like their hosting services or their hardware products.

It will be hard to get buy-in for an all-or-nothing plan like "Nationalize/Utilitize ${BUSINESS}", because it groups together too much into a single proposition. We "just" need to figure whatever minimum change is needed to protect the infrastructure. I realize this, like most important political problems, doesn't have a trivial solution. It will end up with imperfect compromises that everybody is annoyed with. I'm just suggesting there must be a better, more nuanced way to fix this problem than a Boolean "Convert to utility? (Y/N)".

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#123
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

They can force Facebook etc. to hand over the data anyway, so it does not seem like much would change in terms of the threat posed by governments.

True, but I'd rather that process happen publically rather than in secret (as would be the default if the Facebook and Google were nationalised). Not that I'm implying there isn't already secret requests for data (if PRISM is to be believed) but at least with the aforementioned being privately owned there is some chance that unlawful / unjust requests for information can be challenged.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#124
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe nationalization is a bad way to go about it, but these companies are too large, they have too much power over society and society needs to exert power back onto them. So there should be some kind of external oversight when decisions that affect millions of people are being made. I think governments are inefficient and corrupt, but companies are absolutely free to do as they please when deciding how to change pr…

Largest companies by annual revenue[0]: WalMart Stores (US) - $485.8bn State Grid (China) - $315.1bn Sinopec (China) - $267.5bn China Natural Petroleum (China) - $262.6bn Toyota Motor (Japan) - $254.7bn Volkswagen (Germany) - $240.2bn Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands) - $240bn Berkshire Hathaway (US) - $223.6bn Apple (US) - $215.6bn Exxon Mobil (US) - $205bn None are the big three. Should we nationalize Toyota and Volk…

Are you more or less forced to buy a Toyota simply because all your friends drive a Toyota? Is the majority of roads exclusive to Toyotas? If you question a business decision of Toyota, or a design of their car, can you then sell said car and purchase one from another brand with minimal impact on your daily life (Other than the fact that you have to sell and buy a car)?

Clearly it's not just about revenue numbers here.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#127
post #103
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

Nobody said anything about a nation state (in this subthread). Just non-profit and tightly regulated.

True but the topic is about nationalisation so I still felt my point was relevant even if it was tangential to the GPs tangent

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#129
post #17

Actually, I think behind the nationalisation idea, which doesn't seem workable given the circumstances, there's an interesting thought: these companies are sitting on basic infrastructure so instead of treating them like other companies, perhaps we should treat them like utilities. Note that this piece appears in The Guardian. I don't know how it works in the US, but I'm of the impression that in many European countr…

I think we should move back to the model we had at the beginning of the internet era:

1. Universities and government agencies create the protocols and the software.

2. Companies create just the hardware.

3. Infrastructure is run and maintained by the government with the help of companies.

Post reply on HN