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We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

theguardian.com

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Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#111

Post by igravious »

olau wrote: post #17

Actually, I think behind the nationalisation idea, which doesn't seem workable given the circumstances, there's an interesting thought: these companies are sitting on basic infrastructure so instead of treating them like other companies, perhaps we should treat them like utilities. Note that this piece appears in The Guardian. I don't know how it works in the US, but I'm of the impression that in many European countr…

Perhaps it's the online identity part that needs public infrastructure protected by legal constraints? Let the free market piggy-back on top of that platform then. Same thing goes for loyalty cards.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#112

Post by Asdfbla »

hnlmorg wrote: post #74
lucb1e wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would also make me a lot happier about sharing info with said companies. Right now I avoid their products (the non-open source ones) because they just have too much market share and power, but if a site like Facebook turned non-profit I'd be much happier to use it. It just sounds like a great idea all around.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

They can force Facebook etc. to hand over the data anyway, so it does not seem like much would change in terms of the threat posed by governments.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#113

Post by igravious »

visarga wrote: post #41
Veratyr wrote: post #2

I totally agree that Google, Facebook and Amazon have too much power and too little accountability. However they're all global companies and as bad as they are, I trust all of them more than I trust the US government (I am not American). Can you even imagine how their business would work when these are state entities? You're no longer buying ad placements from a marketing company, you're buying them from the US gover…

Maybe nationalization is a bad way to go about it, but these companies are too large, they have too much power over society and society needs to exert power back onto them. So there should be some kind of external oversight when decisions that affect millions of people are being made. I think governments are inefficient and corrupt, but companies are absolutely free to do as they please when deciding how to change pr…

Largest companies by annual revenue[0]:

    WalMart Stores (US)  - $485.8bn 
    State Grid (China) - $315.1bn
    Sinopec (China) - $267.5bn 
    China Natural Petroleum (China) - $262.6bn
    Toyota Motor (Japan) - $254.7bn
    Volkswagen (Germany) - $240.2bn
    Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands) - $240bn
    Berkshire Hathaway (US) - $223.6bn
    Apple (US) - $215.6bn
    Exxon Mobil (US) - $205bn
None are the big three. Should we nationalize Toyota and Volkswagen also?

[0] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/20/revealed-worl...

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#114

Post by nnq »

As a non-american, I'd be 100x times more scared of these giants being owned by the US gov. Actually I'd completely stop using the services of the two of them that I still use. I'll take a nice faceless profit driven shady corporation any time over a foreign government.

Heck, what freaks me out the most about Facebook is that they act very unlike any of the classical profit driven corporations... which may mean they have other more dubious interest than "just profit". Profit-drivenness is in a sense "pure" and "fair"... when something is state owned/controlled it becomes infused with ideologies and these are known to make people do way more stupid and cruel things that the thirst for more money (hint: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot and their followers where not profit-driven!)

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#115

Post by tzury »

"We need" - Who are WE?

As far as I know, Google and Facebook helped and helping people in places where almost everything is nationalized - by providing alternative to local gov-controlled media by making the information and data available to anyone with internet connection.

As far as I know, users are sharing and storing their data and trusting those organizations, rather than their governments. The problem starts when governments try to enforce the providers to tap or provide records our of their data centers.

The internet is good as is, and improved every day, and will continue improving. We need no nationalization over here.

Not really, thanks, but no!

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#116

Post by bem94 »

peoplewindow wrote: post #73
bem94 wrote: post #18

I think a lot of the "oh my gosh nationalisation is such an awful idea" / "not in my free society" comments are missing the point. I too believe nationalisation is a bad idea in this case , but given the enormous reaction it would bring, can you imagine how awful the situation appears to be from the authors (any many other non-tech-bubble) peoples perspective to even contemplate such a thing? Let alone write an opini…

You seem to be saying there's a high threshold for extreme opinions to be published in the Guardian, so the fact that someone wrote such an article suggests that there is a genuine problem that needs to be taken seriously. Guardian writers do not live inside a "bubble" and therefore, there is inherent merit to what they write. I wonder how often you actually read the Guardian, which is famous for having wildly extrem…

I read the guardian frequently and long since learned to ignore the clickbait headlines you point out.

Remember that columnists don't write their own headlines. The content of an article is usually more nuanced and thought out that the headline might suggest. Emphasis on the usually.

I don't think comparing the Guardian to britebart is fair at all, but that's another debate.

I'm not saying newspaper columnists don't live in a bubble. Just a different one from the silicon valley / HN bubble. If they get an impression of the tech world that causes them to think nationalisation is the way forward, the tech world needs to respond to that. Undermining the publication or author (as opposed to considering their argument, and separating it into causes - surveillance capitalism - and proposed effects - nationalisation) does not change the fact people are rightly suspicious of Facebook/Google/Amazon etc and they will react accordingly.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#117

Post by [deleted] »

mozumder wrote: post #82
hnlmorg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

It's a perfectly fine situation for nation-states to have access to such data, because nation-states already have access to everything inside Facebook and Google. In the US, you only need a warrant to access anything inside those companies.

[deleted]

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#118

Post by KGIII »

kbart wrote: post #99
jasiek wrote: post #88

So currently, you have a choice not to use google/fb/amazon. If they were to be nationalized (a truly silly idea), you may lose that choice.

Nonsense. How can any democratic government force to use Google search, post pics in Facebook or buy from Amazon?

By making the government services only accessible, discoverable, and provisioned by those companies, maybe?

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#119

Post by hna99 »

mozumder wrote: post #82
hnlmorg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

It's a perfectly fine situation for nation-states to have access to such data, because nation-states already have access to everything inside Facebook and Google. In the US, you only need a warrant to access anything inside those companies.

Indeed but at least with a warrant all access is documented on public record. Which has got to be better than already having access to all that data in private. Plus private companies can (and sometimes do) challenge a warrant.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#120

Post by hna99 »

lucb1e wrote: post #103
hnlmorg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'd be more worried about nation states having access to the information held on Facebook and Google than I would private corporations.

Nobody said anything about a nation state (in this subthread). Just non-profit and tightly regulated.

The topic is about nationalisation.
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