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Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

nationalgeographic.com

241–250 of 275 posts

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#241
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my 30's I drove a motorcycle, the crotch rocket variety (Kawasaki 750). I had a few very close calls, then decided I had had a good run and a lot of fun, but it was time to hang it up. I could see the writing on the wall: keep doing this and I would have a serious accident, that would either leave me dead or seriously injured. I was, at the time, planning a family, and to this day miss riding but think it was abso…

It was the right choice for a long and full life for sure. My brother hung up, after being the Laid down his bike, impact threw him over the median into oncoming traffic. When they put him in the helicopter he had zero blood pressure, a collapsed lung, and a snapped tibia sticking out. He wasn't wearing the armor my wife and I bought him as a Christmas present a few months earlier; it was too hot. Heart surgeon got t…

Let me first say that I'm extremely glad to hear your brother has recovered and is doing well now. Sounds like it was a horrendous crash and to come back from something like that is nothing short of amazing.

With that being said, and for the benefit of anyone else who might find themselves in a similar situation: laying the bike down is the absolute worst thing you can do.

For one thing, in doing so you will have relinquished all control over your fate and at best you will slide in whatever direction you were going when you hit the ground and if you're lucky maybe not hit any obstacles.

You are much better off applying the brakes progressively but firmly and scrubbing off as much speed as you can, particularly if you're going in a (roughly) straight line.

A good, reasonably modern, properly maintained bike will stop from 70 in less than 200 feet (the DVLA say it's 315 feet but those figures are based on braking distances for much older vehicles). It'll be damned uncomfortable and you'll feel like you're going to crush your balls on the fuel tank and then fly over the handle bars, and the back end will start skipping, but it'll stop. (Your biggest problem may be that whoever/whatever is behind you won't be able to stop so quickly.)

Even if not, allowing for some reaction time, you will be going a lot slower by the time you've reached the traffic and can go between the lanes or around the outside, and even if you come off you'll be coming off at, say 20 - 40mph, as opposed to 70mph, which is likely to leave you with a much better outcome.

I'd actually recommend, if you've had to suddenly slow down, you go between lanes or around traffic anyway just in case there is somebody behind you who doesn't react so quickly or is driving a heavier vehicle that can't slow down as quickly.

The whole idea of laying a bike down when you get into a sticky situation as the best course of action is a dangerous myth that needs to die.

The only time I can see that being better than any other alternative is if something like an articulated lorry/semi-rig is parked across the road in front of you and your options are to either try and slide under the trailer or smash directly into it. Otherwise stay on the bike, slow down as much as you can, and aim for the biggest gap that's available.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#242
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hey, you're right, we did discuss this a while ago. Nice to see you again! Yes, you're right that skydiving is safe compared to the sports that are more dangerous than skydiving. I agree and admit there are sports and activities that are more dangerous than skydiving. Wingsuit flying is one of them. Last time we talked, you said the risk of dying skydiving is 1 in 100,000 and pointed at the comparative table here:…

Since nobody needs a license to get in a canoe, you may expect a higher percentage of people who are unprepared for the risks of canoeing to die doing it Breaking down the numbers, the skydiving fatality rate is a reported 1 in 101,083 jumps. To normalise that to a per-year rate, we can take the USPA rate of 350,000 participants conducting 3,000,000 skydives per year [1]. That gives a mean of 8.6 jumps per year for e…

Wrong. USPA has 35k participants, not 350k. http://test.uspa.org/facts-faqs/safety

  Decade                           2010-2015
  Average fatalities per year      22.3
  Average membership per year      35,189
  Fatalities per thousand members  0.63
You didn't bother reading my comment? You just shared the same link I shared and discussed above. Those two links you shared are both examples of failures of statistics. They are comparing the risk of a single jump to the risk of a year of participation in other activities. That's a math fail.

Skydiving is most definitely not safer than canoeing or boxing or SCUBA or football. It doesn't even pass the smell test that football could be more dangerous than skydiving. You've been misled by a cute poster that someone who's bad at stats screwed up.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#243
post #205

HN attempts to sound authoritative on yet another subject it doesn't understand. A few people pretend to be skydivers after studying the wikipedia entry about the sport, but give themselves away through improper terminology.

I have a three digit BASE number! I'm legit! I swear!

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to "umm actually" your excellent story, but rock climbing is not that dangerous. It's about as dangerous as driving, which people do all the time without even thinking about it. Mountaineering is where the danger is there, primarily.

One accidental sweat slip on a 60 foot climbing wall can paralyze you for life. Trust in your line, I guess.

I have a friend who was a recreational climber. One day she's at the climbing wall with her boyfriend. She's climbing, he's on the ground holding her line.

For those who don't climb, and I don't (although I've been on a climbing wall), the idea is that if you fall the other person is holding on to the rope and and managing the slack so that you don't fall any distance and can be gently lowered or grab back onto the wall.

Her boyfriend wasn't paying attention; he was chatting to some friends of his and hadn't noticed how much slack there was in the line. She's quite high up the wall, loses grip, falls, and doesn't stop until she hits the ground because there's so much slack.

She's paralysed from the waist down, in a wheelchair for life. The boyfriend is, well, not her boyfriend any more.

She's made the best of the situation, has a good career, and has met someone else she's now engaged to, but she's still angry about it, and I can't say I blame her.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#245
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skydiving is actually a very safe and low-risk 'adrenaline' activity, from what I've heard I'm sorry, but you've heard wrong. Skydiving is super dangerous, relative to other sports. Less than wingsuit flying, but more death per participant than most other sports. There's an unfortunate infographic that's made the rounds that makes skydiving look relatively as dangerous as football, but they made a mistake with the…

Here we go again.. (I think we discussed this topic previously) Skydiving, hang gliding,Paragliding and many other "adventure sports" contain a significan amount of risk.. the difference is that skydiving (not base jumping) is tightly regulated by the FAA, there are strict training requirements, equipment maintenance etc etc .. it is almost like flying a plane. so.. it is super dangerous compared to knitting.. but it…

For some perspective here, the maternal mortality rate in the USA is 28 per 100,000 births. So skydiving is about 50x safer than giving birth.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#246
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skydiving is actually a very safe and low-risk 'adrenaline' activity, from what I've heard I'm sorry, but you've heard wrong. Skydiving is super dangerous, relative to other sports. Less than wingsuit flying, but more death per participant than most other sports. There's an unfortunate infographic that's made the rounds that makes skydiving look relatively as dangerous as football, but they made a mistake with the…

Here we go again.. (I think we discussed this topic previously) Skydiving, hang gliding,Paragliding and many other "adventure sports" contain a significan amount of risk.. the difference is that skydiving (not base jumping) is tightly regulated by the FAA, there are strict training requirements, equipment maintenance etc etc .. it is almost like flying a plane. so.. it is super dangerous compared to knitting.. but it…

There is a convenient unit for assessing risk : the micromort. 1 micromort = 1 in a million chance of dying.

Micromort values from wikipedia :

- skydiving : 8 per jump

- hang gliding : 8 per trip

- motorcycle : 1 per 10km

- Ecstasy (MDMA, drug) : 0.5-13 per pill

- BASE-jumping : 430 per jump

So as you can see; skydiving, hang-gliding, motorcycling and drugs are in the same ballpark. BASE-jumping is way worse.

When you are young, you "spend" around 1 micromort per day just being alive, it goes up steeply as you get older.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we go again.. (I think we discussed this topic previously) Skydiving, hang gliding,Paragliding and many other "adventure sports" contain a significan amount of risk.. the difference is that skydiving (not base jumping) is tightly regulated by the FAA, there are strict training requirements, equipment maintenance etc etc .. it is almost like flying a plane. so.. it is super dangerous compared to knitting.. but it…

For some perspective here, the maternal mortality rate in the USA is 28 per 100,000 births. So skydiving is about 50x safer than giving birth.

If not dying every time I jumped resulted in a new human being born, I might agree, but the death rate of births is a net negative. :P

Joking aside, that's an interesting comparison but a bit difficult to really put side by side in a way that's fair. Skydivers jump on average around 90 times a year, which is why they die about 1 in 1,600 per year. Mothers only give birth once per year and on average less than 2 times per life in the US.

A average skydiver's chance of dying in after 20 years is 1 in 80. The average mother's change of dying from birth after 20 years is 1 in 2,000.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#248
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He died earlier this year.

Not the least bit surprised.

Indeed: that was amazing footage but clearly no margin for error. If you're doing that kind of thing routinely it's bound to kill you sooner or later.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the fact that they sound very much alike is exactly what's seeping into the written language, and as any linguist (like myself) will tell you, the written language is not what drives linguistic evolution, it's the spoken language. Writing commonly lags way behind, ergo the spoken language drives evolution of the written one, not vice versa.

There's only a difference in the written word. In the spoken word, it's still "I'd've".

Yes, that's what I'm saying. They're pronounced the exact same and now the written language is starting to exhibit that very thing.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#250

Active BASE jumper and wingsuit pilot here. Instructor of both. 2016 was by far and away our worst year on record. We lost newbies, heros, and damn near all levels in between. Since then, a few sites have taken a more locked-down approach where we used to be welcome, and as a community we've made progress to band together to push education and conservative decision making over 'dude that was so sketchy.' A lot of peo…

"If they wouldn't have lived a life like this, would they have been them?"

And along similar lines, if they hadn't lived a life like that would you have had the benefit of their friendship? Would you even have met them?

Doesn't really make it suck any less when you lose them.

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