Live data from Hacker News

Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

techcrunch.com

231–240 of 268 posts

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#231
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very very rarely downvote anything on HN. I feel downvoting should be used for empty or "me too"-like comments that don't add anything. Your post isn't like that, but in your case I made an exception anyway because you started like this: trying to manipulate the naive herd of sheep who blindly follows whatever people like on Facebook I realise you genuinely do believe that there are vast numbers of people who are l…

Reductive. You seem to be searching for a reason to disagree. He/she stated his point crudely, granted, but he/she did have one: There are certain forms of speech that are outlawed in certain places in the interest of preventing harm to people. For instance, countries with anti-Holocaust-denial laws. Yet they remain reasonably free and tolerant societies. CP is another example. Many governments and people operate wit…

People who believe women can't be programmers or that it's impossible to be racist against white people also have points, and often put them crudely. Having a point is fine. Putting it crudely and then not backing up your position with anything is not fine - it's pretty much the definition of unconstructive criticism.

If quoquoquo had supported their viewpoint with something other than his own enormous contempt, perhaps studies or statistics on the extent to which people are sheep like I'd have let it be or maybe even voted it up. But they didn't.

You're really going to debate that fake news on FB and elsewhere has had a real impact shaping beliefs and attitudes?

"Real impact" is meaningless beyond meaning "an impact more than zero". It's surely had more than zero. Is it significant in scale compared to other sources of manipulation, like what ordinary newspapers routinely engage in? Does it have huge impact on individuals or trivial impact? That's absolutely debatable and worth debating.

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of comments on satire links that clearly demonstrate that large numbers of people can’t always spot satire. That possibly says more about the current cultural and political climate than it does about people’s gullibility though.

It's not Facebook's job to spot satire or fakes for people. Users expect a "common carrier" type experience, not news curation.

Facebook has over two billion users. "Users expect" a wide variety of different things, and I suspect if you polled them there'd be plenty who expect Facebook to do some curation, particularly in the "trending topics" sort of area.

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#233
post #214
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reductive. You seem to be searching for a reason to disagree. He/she stated his point crudely, granted, but he/she did have one: There are certain forms of speech that are outlawed in certain places in the interest of preventing harm to people. For instance, countries with anti-Holocaust-denial laws. Yet they remain reasonably free and tolerant societies. CP is another example. Many governments and people operate wit…

Thank you. Fetishization of free speech is a good way to put it--and it's a position that I would say comes from people who lack perspective; the people who are going to be the last ones targeted by the actual violence that's already happening. Again I'd like to ask, what's the free speech answer to nazis and white supremacists raising their fists to my friends and loved ones? How do we free-speech our way out of the…

So, seeing as you brought them up. Nazis.

You realise - I hope! - that seeing large populations of other people as weak, inferior, morally defective, mentally limited and generally in need of being controlled or removed from public life is exactly the attitude that led to the Nazi horrors, don't you? It wasn't an excess of free speech that led to the concentration camps, which were secret inside Germany and their existence did not leak to the allies until troops actually found them. It was a set of beliefs that de-humanized entire chunks of the population. Those considered immoral or stupid by the Nazis were sent to the gas chambers ... but only after years of much lighter harassment and suppression.

Especially note that a key part of Hitler's rise was the belief that Germany's defeat in WW1 was somehow partly the result of some sort of conspiracy by people with Jewish beliefs.

So now what do we see? A strong conviction by some parts of society that other parts are mentally weak, that their belief systems are morally defective, yet that people with these beliefs are organised and dangerous and thus they must be suppressed.

The risk here is NOT coming from "free speech absolutists", as you put it, but rather people like yourself who look around and see a world full of people who cannot ever be persuaded or redeemed because they're just too stupid or evil, and thus must be prevented from organising. In the exceptionally rare case that genuine, actual Nazis do "raise their fists" the solution is the same as when anyone does: arrest them and send them to trial.

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#234
post #214
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reductive. You seem to be searching for a reason to disagree. He/she stated his point crudely, granted, but he/she did have one: There are certain forms of speech that are outlawed in certain places in the interest of preventing harm to people. For instance, countries with anti-Holocaust-denial laws. Yet they remain reasonably free and tolerant societies. CP is another example. Many governments and people operate wit…

Thank you. Fetishization of free speech is a good way to put it--and it's a position that I would say comes from people who lack perspective; the people who are going to be the last ones targeted by the actual violence that's already happening. Again I'd like to ask, what's the free speech answer to nazis and white supremacists raising their fists to my friends and loved ones? How do we free-speech our way out of the…

>Again I'd like to ask, what's the free speech answer to nazis and white supremacists raising their fists to my friends and loved ones? How do we free-speech our way out of the violence that's already coming?

One, you respond to violence with violence, but that's not what we're talking about. And two, the best way to hurry along the violence you think is coming is to close down other people's free speech. Speech is the substitute for violence - what do you think will happen when you take speech away from people who feel marginalized?

>I'd love to be a free-speech absolutist but, right now, I can't square it with the suffering and violence being brought down on the most vulnerable.

Sure, "I support free speech but...". You'd love to be a free speech absolutist, as long as the people talking agree with you.

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#235
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course they're entitled not to. however, they allow BS they agree with so they must accept that obvious bias will be called obvious bias.

> they allow BS they agree What BS specifically do you disagree with? Do you realize your own bias with that statement?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/11/facebooks-fake-news-is-loo...

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#236

I'm an ad buyer on Facebook and sometimes Facebook gets very strict, and they ultimately come to a compromise between ad performance/advertisers and their policies. I know people are scared of 'censorship', but they probably will end up just targeting those crazy conspiratorial pages that clearly share the most bogus stuff to prey on people to later sell bogus products to. You'd be surprised at what's out there..

SUPER MALE VITALITY!

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#237
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Someone who bullshits in real life can still buy a microphone and can rent a stadium for his event. People can choose to attend or not attend and listen to him. For example, Trump has spread so many falsehoods but people still attend his events.

The people selling microphones get to decide that. This is Facebook's microphone to sell, the liars are free to buy another.

I'm neither a heavy Facebook user nor a fan of Trump, but doesn't it make you at least a little bit nervous that a many-billion-dollar company is going to start selectively censoring (or at least hindering) communication it disagrees with?

What happened to the traditional liberal distrust of big corporations?

What about if Facebook decides discussion of privacy violations online is "fake news?"

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#238
post #90
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, FB, TW, etc have become unreliable sources of news. For me, it has shown that a large chunk my social network is incapable of detecting bullshit. Last year I tried linking to Snopes or Politifact when people would post obvious falsehoods, but most people just don't care. What I want from FB is a feed that doesn't include shares or likes of any external content. Seeing and reading about life events of my fri…

I'd be careful, both Politifact and Snopes have been caught pushing their own slanted narratives. Example: When Bernie says black youth unemployment is ~50%, it's true. When Trump says the same, it's false. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/... http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/jun/20/do...

Bernie's statement was limited to people with no education past high school; Trump's wasn't.

The inaccurate thing about Bernie's statement was that he cited U6 as a measure of "unemployment" when it would more accurately be called a measure of "underemployment". It includes people who want a full-time job but can only find a part-time job even though they aren't fully unemployed.

Trump cited 100% - labor force participation rate as a measure of unemployment, which is complete nonsense because it counts people who are full-time students or who are disabled as unemployed.

Re: Facebook says Pages that regularly share false news won’t be able to buy ads

#240
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Fetishization of free speech is a good way to put it--and it's a position that I would say comes from people who lack perspective; the people who are going to be the last ones targeted by the actual violence that's already happening. Again I'd like to ask, what's the free speech answer to nazis and white supremacists raising their fists to my friends and loved ones? How do we free-speech our way out of the…

So, seeing as you brought them up. Nazis. You realise - I hope! - that seeing large populations of other people as weak, inferior, morally defective, mentally limited and generally in need of being controlled or removed from public life is exactly the attitude that led to the Nazi horrors, don't you? It wasn't an excess of free speech that led to the concentration camps, which were secret inside Germany and their exi…

Wow. So you're comparing the OP of this subthread to the Nazis because they think the electorate is susceptible to manipulation. That's some shameful sophistry.
Post reply on HN