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Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

theguardian.com

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Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#21

Post by rainbowmverse »

grzm wrote: post #13
DonbunEf7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! Lemme help you out here. "Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) When peo…

> To detest is to speak out against Interesting. I've never heard this use. The definitions I've seen of detest are some form of dislike intensely . Reviewing Merriam-Webster[0], I see there is an obsolete sense of detest that means to curse. > 1 : to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe · detests politics · They seem to truly detest each other. > 2 obsolete : curse, denounce I can't recall ever h…

An American dictionary in 2017 might reflect different meanings than a British person in the '50s and earlier used.

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#22

Post by damnfine »

School-Cotton wrote: post #16
DonbunEf7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! Lemme help you out here. "Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) When peo…

I'm a native English speaker and I have never met anyone who makes this distinction, after having spoken English with many thousands of people in my life. Etymology doesn't determine meaning. I'm open to the possibility that in 1950s England these words meant what you say (even though in my native dialect of English they don't), but to argue that you would need to give citations, not etymologies.

You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive.

Words mean things. Just because you, and many others don't always observe the minutae of meaning, does not erase it. There are words you, and 1000 other peers, have not learned yet. That does not render them meaningless.

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#23

Post by vixen99 »

burkaman wrote: post #6
gerdesj wrote: post #4

It's rather sad that the only thing a trained journalist can find in 150 letters written by a hero of the first order is “I would not like the journey, and I detest America.” - a remark made once by him. I'd like these letters to be analysed by people who could make some real sense of them and put them into a decent context. Finding a throwaway remark that many have made on the spur of the moment and headlining it is…

You can analyze them if you want: https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/4f6c3f0c-9a70... This article is written for a general audience, and there's probably not much else of general interest in them if they're mostly about academics.

Terrific - thank you!

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#24

Post by dctoedt »

damnfine wrote: post #22
School-Cotton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a native English speaker and I have never met anyone who makes this distinction, after having spoken English with many thousands of people in my life. Etymology doesn't determine meaning. I'm open to the possibility that in 1950s England these words meant what you say (even though in my native dialect of English they don't), but to argue that you would need to give citations, not etymologies.

You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. Words mean things. Just because you, and many others don't always observe the minutae of meaning, does not erase it. There are words you, and 1000 other peers, have not learned yet. That does not render them meaningless.

> You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive.

That's not what he said.

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#25

Post by dec0dedab0de »

DonbunEf7 wrote: post #12
manyhands wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately those two words are synonyms, so readers have not been terribly misled.

Hi! Lemme help you out here. "Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) When peo…

so if someone says "I despise..." then they are destesting.

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#26

Post by School-Cotton »

damnfine wrote: post #22
School-Cotton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a native English speaker and I have never met anyone who makes this distinction, after having spoken English with many thousands of people in my life. Etymology doesn't determine meaning. I'm open to the possibility that in 1950s England these words meant what you say (even though in my native dialect of English they don't), but to argue that you would need to give citations, not etymologies.

You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. Words mean things. Just because you, and many others don't always observe the minutae of meaning, does not erase it. There are words you, and 1000 other peers, have not learned yet. That does not render them meaningless.

Sure, words mean things. But meaning is a social phenomenon. If you want to prove a word means something, you have to provide citations of it being used with that meaning.

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#27

Post by School-Cotton »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #21
grzm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To detest is to speak out against Interesting. I've never heard this use. The definitions I've seen of detest are some form of dislike intensely . Reviewing Merriam-Webster[0], I see there is an obsolete sense of detest that means to curse. > 1 : to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe · detests politics · They seem to truly detest each other. > 2 obsolete : curse, denounce I can't recall ever h…

An American dictionary in 2017 might reflect different meanings than a British person in the '50s and earlier used.

OED should have citations for these purported meanings, if they exist. Does anyone have access (perhaps through a university library) and can check?

Re: Collection of letters by Alan Turing found in filing cabinet

#29

Post by rurounijones »

manyhands wrote: post #9
rurounijones wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"detest", not "despise". Small thing I know but accuracy is important.

Fortunately those two words are synonyms, so readers have not been terribly misled.

Even if they are synonyms (which has been gone into great detail below):

It is a 3 word quote. Is it really that hard to get it right? Is it really acceptable to get such a simple quote wrong when writing it down to an audience?

If you quote someone and get it slightly wrong then given a few generations of small modification by others getting it slightly wrong and meanings can change drastically.

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