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Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

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Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#221

Post by hedora »

I think most people would agree that non-consensual profiling / tracking of users is immoral. AdNauseum directly breaks most business models that rely on that. I don't see the problem.

Want to support your site using ads? Why not use display ads? Sell space next to high quality content to advertisers with relevant products. Problem solved, and it puts bottom feeder ad exchanges and content spam websites out of business. (And it probably puts a big wrench in the fake news industry as a bonus)

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#222

Post by cumbuckets »

dang wrote: post #220
wu_tang_chris wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We, as users, could not possibly care less if your site goes out of business because you are unable to come up with another form of monetization. Exactly this. The entitlement jedberg shows here, to be able to show ads on a link aggregator (of all useless things) is astonishing.

> The entitlement jedberg shows here This crosses into personal attack and namecalling. Those things are against the HN guidelines. Would you please (re-)read them, and follow them when commenting here? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

He's sounds pretty entitled to me mate

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#223

Post by aphextron »

School-Cotton wrote: post #194
aphextron wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone arguing against AdNauseum is totally missing the point here. We, as users, could not possibly care less if your site goes out of business because you are unable to come up with another form of monetization. Something will rise up to take your place that is more user friendly. The market will find a way. I somehow strongly doubt that if the current paradigm of ad based revenue were to disappear overnight, that…

> We, as users, could not possibly care less if your site goes out of business Reddit users wouldn't care if Reddit went out of business? I find that hard to believe. > Something will rise up to take your place that is more user friendly. The market will find a way. Got any ideas? Nobody has come up with anything that works so far. > I somehow strongly doubt that if the current paradigm of ad based revenue were to di…

>Reddit users wouldn't care if Reddit went out of business? I find that hard to believe.

Sure they would. But if Reddit went out of business, a new Reddit would immediately take it's place. The value to be extracted from such a large user-base is too great for this niche to go unfilled. How that value would be extracted in an ad-free system is yet to be seen. But I have faith in human ingenuity.

>Got any ideas? Nobody has come up with anything that works so far.

That is precisely my point. No one has come up with any ideas so far because there is not sufficient incentive. The model that now exists makes money, so why would anyone try too hard to rock the boat? Sure there a few small bit players trying to change things. But these limited ideological efforts are completely different from the full brunt of a capitalist market seeking profits under constraints that completely disallow advertising.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#225

Post by hedora »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #206
smichel17 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally we'd find other ways to bankroll websites. Obligatory snowdrift.coop plug here (best intro, though with outdated visuals, remains https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/about/intro )

Ideally. But everything has failed so far except donation-style things for a handful of specific niches.

Why not sell display ads that are relevant to your target audience? Use pay per impression instead of pay per click. (To the extent AdNauseum succeeds, pay per click won't pay well anyway)

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#226

Post by junkculture »

School-Cotton wrote: post #194
aphextron wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone arguing against AdNauseum is totally missing the point here. We, as users, could not possibly care less if your site goes out of business because you are unable to come up with another form of monetization. Something will rise up to take your place that is more user friendly. The market will find a way. I somehow strongly doubt that if the current paradigm of ad based revenue were to disappear overnight, that…

> We, as users, could not possibly care less if your site goes out of business Reddit users wouldn't care if Reddit went out of business? I find that hard to believe. > Something will rise up to take your place that is more user friendly. The market will find a way. Got any ideas? Nobody has come up with anything that works so far. > I somehow strongly doubt that if the current paradigm of ad based revenue were to di…

Digg users didn't care when that site committed suicide. K5 users too moved on.

Myspace, anyone?

It's just a matter of time before reddit dies as well. Unlike google or facebook, there's not much value that a user can extract from reddit.

Google with all their services still provide value to users.

Facebook, despite their privacy issues, still provides something of value to their users.

What does reddit provide which can't be done by an alternative?

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#227

Post by chii »

davidgerard wrote: post #157
JohnTHaller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people are free not to visit our website. Or even to block all ads if the site gracefully allows it (most do, mine do).

> Those people are free not to visit our website. If you meant that, you'd have a paywall up. Do you offer legally enforceable indemnity against people getting malware from ads you serve? If not, then you can't really tell them not to block the ads.

Even though i hate advertising, I'm against weaponizing clicks on ads to punish sites. Boycott, or block ads.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#228

Post by ouid »

jedberg wrote: post #124

I hear a lot of people in here saying, "Yay for AdNauseum, they are fixing the broken ad system! If sites start charging instead of ads, I'll totally pay!" Let me add a little perspective. A long time ago at reddit we launched reddit gold. At the time, one of the biggest benefits was that if you had gold you could turn off ads. This was in direct response to people saying, "I would rather pay you then use adblock". Y…

The only way reddit gets paid through advertising is if it has an effect on my purchasing decisions. Are you insisting that I consent to that? I don't. Are you insisting that I let you try to manipulate me into that? I'm clearly allowed to defend myself from such manipulation. Adblock is an effective way of doing that.

Can you charge people to use reddit? Not if you want to make money. I don't think people are willing to pay to use reddit. especially after the exodus that follows.

Some people consent to being manipulating into buying things, and reddit profits off of those people. Some people don't consent to that, but we still add value to the site by simply visiting, writing comments, voting, etc.

The math is clear. As long as enough people are willing to look at ads, you can't go to a paid only site without losing money.

The adblock users of the world thank those people, I guess, but that's just what it is.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#229

Post by chii »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #210
chii wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, a court of law take into account intent. Misclicking on a link is not fraud, but intentionally misclicking is indeed fraud, if you know if had an intended effect on the budget of the advertiser.

I would think there's a much stronger case for fraud against people who put misleading advertisements on their websites. Visiting a link automatically demonstrates an intent to protest advertisers, not defraud them.

False advertising is already against the law.

You can protest legally by blocking ads, but there's such a thing as too much civil disobedience. Its a slippery slope, because this argument can be used to justify DDoS.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#230

Post by JohnTHaller »

hedora wrote: post #225
JohnTHaller wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally. But everything has failed so far except donation-style things for a handful of specific niches.

Why not sell display ads that are relevant to your target audience? Use pay per impression instead of pay per click. (To the extent AdNauseum succeeds, pay per click won't pay well anyway)

If there were an ad network or agency that did this with a similar level of revenue (or even just close), I'd switch. There isn't. I've looked. For years. I wish there were.
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