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Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

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41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#41

The review video that "killed the company" was great. The entire time, I was bracing for the moment when the founder would offer a kickback for a good review, expecting a number above at least $2500. $500. He offered this guy 500 bucks for a false review of a product that they both knew was absolute shit. What a joke!

Good lord, the bit about the company failing to remove the [insert video here] section of their website featuring Codi's review... the whole video is worth watching, he starts out trying to keep it straight business but the tale turns more kafkaesque by the minute. Brutal.

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#42

The review video that "killed the company" was great. The entire time, I was bracing for the moment when the founder would offer a kickback for a good review, expecting a number above at least $2500. $500. He offered this guy 500 bucks for a false review of a product that they both knew was absolute shit. What a joke!

URL for the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Gw3tErUSM

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#44
post #30

> "...with the quick turn of events, we are emotionally overwhelmed" I didn't preorder and have no skin in this. But, it really irritates me when companies share their feels after screwing people over. I dont care that you're super sad! We're not compadres, and I'm not going to sympathize on a personal level when your professional failure cost me. Same with touchy-feely status updates when hosted services go down and…

Ha, yeah. As a customer, I expect you to place a realistic upper bound on your ability to deliver. Like, Nintendo's SNES Classics sold out in about 100ms. But they didn't promise an infinite quantity and THEN start asking digikey and mouser what their stocks of SuperFX chips looked like.

So you want to use a part in a design. Maybe...I dunno...check how much stock you can purchase in a short period of time with little notice? If say, your core processor is on a 14-week lead time at every factory that makes them, maybe you'd want to do a limited run to start with?

It doesn't sound like this company made it that far, though. Did they even have a final product? I can't quite tell from the article, but it sounds like 'no.'

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#45
post #30

> "...with the quick turn of events, we are emotionally overwhelmed" I didn't preorder and have no skin in this. But, it really irritates me when companies share their feels after screwing people over. I dont care that you're super sad! We're not compadres, and I'm not going to sympathize on a personal level when your professional failure cost me. Same with touchy-feely status updates when hosted services go down and…

Agree on the point of cutesy bullshit marketing/PR fluff when your team or service fails to deliver. I'm really tired of the infantilization of communication. I think this is a West Coast thing. It seems to have originated there but it doesn't translate outside of SF.

Not just when they fail deliver. I like 1Password, but I can't stand their '1Password talking in first person about itself'-communication:

https://twitter.com/1password

And then the self-congratulating blog posts, with employees redoing it in the comments:

https://blog.agilebits.com/2017/07/13/why-we-love-1password-...

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#46
post #27

To provide a counter anecdote: I have never been burnt by a KickStarter yet and I've backed about 7 of them. I have had to wait a very long time though. Once almost 2 years. But I am prepared knowing that one day I might back a losing horse. With that said, I'm surprised there is no recourse for the people who bought from the website.

I really can't imagine that these types of scams are the norm, and not the exception. I've backed 33 campaigns, and I've never been burned (yet). Two turned out to be pretty shitty executions, though - not sure if I should count that, since I did still receive my rewards. The key is to ask yourself some common sense questions like: * Is this product possible in our current reality? * Does the business exist only for…

> since hardware development is so damn hard.

I think I would put it as hardware development is different. And it's the differences that burn folks used to software.

However, even as an experienced "hardware" designer, the BANE of my existence is anything having the word "mechanical" associated with it.

I'm so good, I can design electronics that anticipates the failure modes (For example: Want good soldermark coverage? Never use the default green ink.). I can get 100 fully populated boards in about 7 days for about $5K. If I go to China, I can get about 1000 in 3 weeks for the same price.

Cases? Clips to hold a component? Packaging? If SLA isn't good enough (and it's rare that it is), God help you, you are about to need it.

Dealing with mechanical engineering feels like stepping back into 1953. And not even that good. Back in 1953, lots of people knew how to operate milling machines, lathes, etc. so you could get a small number of parts made for a small amount of money fairly quickly from somebody out of their garage.

Nowadays? Anything that touches mechanicals is chunks of $5K NRE and 6-8 weeks.

I'm an electrical engineer by background but have had to learn TIG welding, CNC machining, injection mold design, and a whole host of other plastic and metal manufacturing techniques simply because I can't afford to be shelling out $10K up front every time I want to prototype something.

I'm really hoping that SLS will evolve now that the patents have all expired. I would pay real money for a machine that lets me torch mechanical engineers and machine shops/injection molders.

(Side note: I have had the pleasure of working with a few very good machine shops and injection molders. They are wonderful, but they tend to be quite expensive. It is almost a tautology: a good shop is at 100% production capacity and a shop not at 100% capacity is, by definition, not a good shop. The fact that such shops are at 100% capacity means that they don't want to waste production time on a client who wants a maximum of 1000 units.)

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#47
post #46
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't imagine that these types of scams are the norm, and not the exception. I've backed 33 campaigns, and I've never been burned (yet). Two turned out to be pretty shitty executions, though - not sure if I should count that, since I did still receive my rewards. The key is to ask yourself some common sense questions like: * Is this product possible in our current reality? * Does the business exist only for…

> since hardware development is so damn hard. I think I would put it as hardware development is different . And it's the differences that burn folks used to software. However, even as an experienced "hardware" designer, the BANE of my existence is anything having the word "mechanical" associated with it. I'm so good, I can design electronics that anticipates the failure modes (For example: Want good soldermark covera…

I'm an ME, and still had to learn TIG / MIG welding (long before studying ME), machining (both CNC and not), injection mold design (smallworks.com), CAD (wasn't taught back in the day).

Oh, and software engineering, 'cause that's what I ended up doing.

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't Kickstarter be not happy about the chargeback? I know many sites will kill your account if you do it.

They might be unhappy but a higher frequency of chargebacks (and possibly bank/card issuer responses) may be the kick they need to re-evaluate and overhaul their current system of maker accountability.

Chargebacks seem like one of the worst ways to deal with it. If you're that afraid of losing money this type of transaction probably isn't for you.

What seems to be the biggest failure with most of these companies is setting the expectations right. It also seems like a subset have good intentions, but lack the experience and/or ability to execute. And an even a smaller subset are actual fraud.

Edit: I would think that if it's proven fraud then some other form of legal action should be taken. It'd be interesting to see if that should be on Kickstarter or not. Perhaps they should step in on such cases to protect their customers.

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#49
light.co was mentioned on the corresponding reddit thread. I'm getting afraid I'm going to be burnt by laforge's shima glasses. They are 'super open' with updates showing disassembled hardware components but despite promising press reviews and shipments in Q1, I haven't seen a single hands-on demo or press review or evidence that even their proof of concept exists.

Re: Kanoa won’t ship its $300 earphones to customers who pre-ordered them

#50
post #3

You have to know, anything crowdfunded is very high risk. I'm not sure why people even do it if the reward is maybe a product at a discount. I'm amazed some unscrupulous company has't abused it to take money with no intention of ever delivering a product.

"You have to know, anything crowdfunded is very high risk. I'm not sure why people even do it if the reward is maybe a product at a discount."

I've done it because of a product that seems to actually fit my needs or because it is neat. The one i'm waiting on right now is a 3D printer with laser engraving and carving abilities. If it does a little of what it says it does, it'll be well worth it. Worth it enough to risk the money. At this point, even if I don't get the product, I've had months of ideas pouring into my artsy head and will probably find other ways to do similar things, so I've already benefited.

And sure it is a risk, just by nature. I know I could lose the money, so I don't use money I need to live. It is the same rule I use for gambling, either at the rare casino visit or when playing lottery (the hope tax). The odds are better with this, though, and honestly my spouse and I would spend just as much going to a casino and blowing our money there. Not getting the stuff isn't happy, but in the end isn't a big deal.

If that sort of risk doesn't sit comfortably with you, then it is going to seem silly.

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