Live data from Hacker News

VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

181–190 of 227 posts

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> causing deaths and disease from said pollution Has that been proven? Serious question, I've not kept up with the ins and outs of the case. UPDATE: I should clarify, I mean specifically the increased pollution these VWs created not just pollution in general.

It seems reasonable to extrapolate given it’s 40x over the limit and we already know pollution kills (both directly as a toxin and indirectly through climate change).

[deleted]

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. Is there any case where any western country did extradite their own citizen for non-spionage, non-military, non-war and non-capital crime? I hope not. I certainly do not approve of the scam and deception VW did (and possibly other automobile manufacturers?), but I think I do not approve extraditing citizens of your own country for some non-capital crime. Or even some capital crimes for that matter. I (and most…

Fair enough on the death penalty, but I don't see how that's relevant for any other crimes.

It's already hard to understand the culture in a country. I see also the difficulty of handling administrative matters for my American wife, from taxes to mortgage contracts. Everything of course in a second language. Even people's gestures or their facial expressions are different.

To have to navigate the juridicial system in another country is a huge disadvantage. You will make errors which a native will never make. You will not know about options that are very clear to long term citizens. Etc. Etc.

All in all, whatever the crime, you would like to have everybody the same chance in your juridicial system. Foreigners will have a disadvantage however.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#183
The German automotive industry has a very aggressive culture. Our (German) managers put enormous pressure on us to do whatever it took to win deals. I can clearly remember watching one of our engineering managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) as her boss turned the metaphorical screws to pressure her to win our segment's first big deal -- Ironically with VW as the customer.

Shamefully, I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point. I have worked for enough startups to understand the concept of "fake it 'till you make it" -- but there are limits. In particular, the organisation needs to be prepared to follow through and make good on promises made -- or come clean when it becomes apparent that something cannot be done.

One needs to be especially careful when we are dealing with safety-involved automotive autonomy functionality where the consequences of hastily engineered and inadequately tested algorithms can sometimes be serious. I can well remember getting the distinct impression that the engineering team for these early products were essentially being set up as "fall guys" -- we took tremendous risks to win that early business, but it was clear that we would be very much isolated and alone when or if any of the potential downsides were realised.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> causing deaths and disease from said pollution Has that been proven? Serious question, I've not kept up with the ins and outs of the case. UPDATE: I should clarify, I mean specifically the increased pollution these VWs created not just pollution in general.

It seems reasonable to extrapolate given it’s 40x over the limit and we already know pollution kills (both directly as a toxin and indirectly through climate change).

NOx contribute wery little to climate change though.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#185

The German automotive industry has a very aggressive culture. Our (German) managers put enormous pressure on us to do whatever it took to win deals. I can clearly remember watching one of our engineering managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) as her boss turned the metaphorical screws to pressure her to win our segment's first big deal -- Ironically with VW as the customer. Shamefully, I stayed…

> I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point.

I worked for a guy like that. When I finally decided to call it quits he got physical (chased me through the company premises with an iron bar, not kidding).

Nowadays I would tell someone like that to fuck off at the first sign of such behavior, when I was young I could still be bullied.

The frustrating part of all this is that I did some of my best work for this asshole, simply because he'd promise the impossible to the customers and would then rely on me to get his ass out of the fire, which I inevitably found a way to do. Even so, it wore me out to the point where I had serious physical side effects from the stress and it messed up a lot of my private relationships.

After that I took it easy and ran a start-up of my own. It seemed like a vacation in comparison and only became stressful when it took off in a manner that we had never foreseen. Still, the stress levels never even approached what happened in those few years at that earlier company.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#186

I was watching a german program on the VW scandal and was surprised to learn that the German government allowed VW to issue a software patch to correct the problem instead of offering to repair or compensate owners for the cars they purchased. Even with the software patch the vehicles still released emissions that were well above the norm. Also, I don't believe any VW executives have ever been charged in Germany.

No Microsoft or Intel executives have been charged for grossly anticompetitive practices either. In my mind it is very simple: no country hurts its own industry too much. Effectively, other countries need to step in.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#187

The German automotive industry has a very aggressive culture. Our (German) managers put enormous pressure on us to do whatever it took to win deals. I can clearly remember watching one of our engineering managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) as her boss turned the metaphorical screws to pressure her to win our segment's first big deal -- Ironically with VW as the customer. Shamefully, I stayed…

> I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point. I worked for a guy like that. When I finally decided to call it quits he got physical (chased me through the company premises with an iron bar, not kidding). Nowadays I wo…

As a consultant, I've seen these sorts of environments over and over... either as dying companies or companies struggling to compete at risk of dying. Any sort of business that isn't defensible, high necessity, timeless, cost-controlled and managed well has an ass-kickability factor. Plus, too many businesses engage in restaurant-grade commodification, internal political satisfaction and ego competion instead of intelligent leadership to customer love, product agility and profit.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#188
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also very curious how they managed to get my '09 "fixed" somehow via a simple software patch. I would have understood it if it had lost 20% performance or got 20% higher fuel consumption - but that didn't happen. So: if it was that easy to fix legally why did they cheat in the first place?? Of course it can't be that easy. So of course my car is still polluting over the limit. And I think this is a story that i…

> That also answers why the German government is giving them some leeway here: it's not exactly in their interest to kill Volkswagen. While the federal government does not have a direct stake (apart from all the tax euros), the fine state of Lower Saxony holds a 20 % share (which actually causes the MP and his economics minister to always be on the board of directors).

Interesting. Does that mean they could have been aware of the problem (from being on the board), before it became public knowledge?

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say I'm troubled about recent political situation in Germany.. for so many years they been a real good example in Europe how to lead, despite the fact they start the WW2. But now there is no free speech (you cannot shout Heil Hitler - that might be long prison sentence) and just recently there been article here how Germany court system doesn't believe in freedom of speech. Now this. If there truly won't be any…

Germany has had laws against Nazi symbolism and activity for decades. This isn't new. "Now there is no free speech" is the rewriting of history--and it smells pretty disingenuous. And Reporters Without Borders ranks Germany sixteenth in the world as far as press freedom goes. The United States is forty-third, behind such leading lights as Belize and Burkina Faso. The understanding that is that support of Nazism serve…

In fact, they've had laws against Nazi symbolism since the US imposed it on them. From an article of the TIME from 1946:

To re-educate Germany, the Allies last week adopted a typically Nazi device. The four-power Coordinating Committee decided to reduce to pulp all "undemocratic, militaristic and Nazi" literature, museum and library material, newspapers, films and war memorials. (...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Censorship

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US is cool with "rolling coal" because....

In July 2014, the United States Environmental Protection Agency stated that the practice was illegal, as it violated the Clean Air Act which prohibits the manufacturing, sale, and installation "of a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device [and] prohibits anyone from tampering with an emission control device on a motor vehicle by removing it or making it inop…

I love this bit (not a criticism, just find it amusing): "The bill was introduced by state Assemblyman Tim Eustace after a pickup truck blasted smoke at Eustace's Nissan Leaf while driving on the New Jersey Turnpike."
Post reply on HN