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Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

nytimes.com

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Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#61

Post by ChuckMcM »

nerdponx wrote: post #51
ChuckMcM wrote: post #25

From the article: "It's true that networking can help you accomplish great things. But this obscures the opposite truth: Accomplishing great things help you develop a network." This is something that I wished I had understood way earlier in my career. Basically that cause and effect are often inverted when people talk about the network effect. People who do some thing well, or are passionate about, often will accumul…

For most people, it's typically difficult to accomplish great things without mentorship and support. Which, in turn, typically require a network of some kind, whether it be family, teachers and classmates, or professional contacts.

I completely agree with this statement:

   >  it's typically difficult to accomplish great things 
   >  without mentorship and support.
And this is how I have seen it play out as I've mentored folks. When someone talks with others about the great things they are trying to accomplish (as opposed to people talk about great things they say they will accomplish) and listens for useful feedback, they not only develop a network of mentors, but they advance in their understanding of the task at hand.

When I was president of the local robotics club we asked people who were building robots to tell us what we wanted them to accomplish. In my case I wanted a robot that would respond to a voice command for a Diet Dr Pepper, go fetch it, replace stock if the refrigerator was low, and bring it back to me. When I started that quest in the mid '80s it was a pretty tall order. Some people just said "you're crazy, that is too complicated for a robot to do." But the people who were worth listening too asked good questions like "Is it important that the refrigerator is general purpose or can you modify it to make it easier for the robot to access?" That led to ideas like the "Giant Tube of Sodas" refrigerator idea where soda was put into the tube at the top, the tube is wrapped in cooling coils, the bottom is easy access for a robot gripper. The questions and the mentorship I received not only taught me about some of the things I didn't know (like inverse kinematics for robotics) but also how to ask about what the real problem was versus the apparent problem (using a "regular" fridge is a lot harder problem than a custom fridge for example).

The people who are successful, and incidentally develop strong networks, are the ones that share what they are trying to accomplish and listen to the feedback; while not being discouraged by the "that's a stupid goal" type feedback.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#62

Post by enraged_camel »

pavlov wrote: post #54
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #26

The article gives example of Justin Bieber and Adele. For those two examples, there are hundreds who got where they are just because they knew someone important. Miley Cyrus, Jaden Smith, Charlie Sheen, Ben Stiller, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton. Actors/singers make very poor examples for this given that most of them mostly get to where they are by networking more than anything else. Lets say there was an absolute mas…

I would add that many of the very best artists owe their careers to knowing the right person at the critical moment. In a recent interview, composer Randy Newman explained how childhood connections got him into the business: "Newman started writing songs because his childhood friend Lenny Waronker, who later became the president of Warner Bros. Records, suggested that he try it. “He knew who Carole King was and stuff…

The funny thing is that people get angry when the same logic is applied to tech legends.

Wozniak would have stayed in HP and probsbly remained fairly unknown if Jobs had not convinced him to start Apple with him.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#63

Post by vmarsy »

From one of the sources of the article: [1]

>> In Study 1, White and Asian nonnative speakers using the same scripted responses as native speakers were found to be significantly less likely to be recommended for a middle-management position, and this bias was fully mediated by assessments of their political skill.

>> Nonnative speakers were found to have a significantly lower likelihood of receiving new-venture funding

That's an interesting bias, I wonder if/how it varies by accents, as those can be quite different. Are foreign accents from countries where English is still a major language like U.K., Australia, India, ..., perceived differently than foreign accents from non english-speaking countries?

[1] http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2013-28924-001

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#64

Post by vacri »

jknoepfler wrote: post #40

The author conflates networking with shameless self-shilling. This makes for a pretty thin strawman. Networking, in the sense of maintaining strong professional relationships and having a presence at professional events, creates a strong passive upwards pressure for someone who is talented. If you "spring to mind" as someone I can trust to "do X," or if you spring into the mind of the person I task with finding someo…

> The author conflates networking with shameless self-shilling.

I found the same. Cold-calling and party tricks (like dropping businesscards into bags) is not 'networking'. It's one aspect of it, yes, but a minor one.

Not to mention that plenty of us know people who are awesome at their craft, yet never seem to get anywhere with it. Arguing from outliers like major pop stars means nothing for the 'real' people below them.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#65

Post by enraged_camel »

a-saleh wrote: post #12
tejaswidp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think PhD is a waste of time?

I would say that PHD is not a waste of time only if you plan to stay in academia. If writing papers and chasing grants is your jam, go for it. If you are looking for one more thing for your CV, don't bother with phd.

Nah. Many high tech fields in the private sector recruit PhDs for research positions. Intel for example has a ton of them.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#66

Post by warcher »

enraged_camel wrote: post #62
pavlov wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add that many of the very best artists owe their careers to knowing the right person at the critical moment. In a recent interview, composer Randy Newman explained how childhood connections got him into the business: "Newman started writing songs because his childhood friend Lenny Waronker, who later became the president of Warner Bros. Records, suggested that he try it. “He knew who Carole King was and stuff…

The funny thing is that people get angry when the same logic is applied to tech legends. Wozniak would have stayed in HP and probsbly remained fairly unknown if Jobs had not convinced him to start Apple with him.

And vice versa. Jobs got where he was by (not likely coincidentally) finding a person with Woz's combination of genius and gullibility. Woz didn't get a remotely fair shake from Jobs, and there are not a ton of guys dumb enough to ride that ride and smart enough to deliver what Woz delivered.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#67

Post by zzzcpan »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #26

The article gives example of Justin Bieber and Adele. For those two examples, there are hundreds who got where they are just because they knew someone important. Miley Cyrus, Jaden Smith, Charlie Sheen, Ben Stiller, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton. Actors/singers make very poor examples for this given that most of them mostly get to where they are by networking more than anything else. Lets say there was an absolute mas…

Networking is one the most expensive forms of advertising. If a better paying job is what you are after, spending 90% of your time on networking doesn't sound like an efficient or even a good idea. Instead focus on building your brand, doing PR, writing articles, speaking at various events, etc., basically focus on becoming a rockstar and wait for offers to come to you.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#68

Post by otherbrownguy2 »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #26

The article gives example of Justin Bieber and Adele. For those two examples, there are hundreds who got where they are just because they knew someone important. Miley Cyrus, Jaden Smith, Charlie Sheen, Ben Stiller, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton. Actors/singers make very poor examples for this given that most of them mostly get to where they are by networking more than anything else. Lets say there was an absolute mas…

This sums up everything I've seen so far: academia, companies, and startups. It makes one very cynical after experiencing how much things are driven by PR.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#69

Post by pcsanwald »

The author uses several musical examples, and I've worked as a professional musician for a long, long time.

Waiting for a music exec or manager to somehow hear your work is a terrible strategy. On average, if you wait around to be discovered, you'll be waiting a long time.

In music, networking is hugely important to being successful. Going to people's gigs, meeting others, and similar was hugely important for me to establish myself as a working musician when I moved across the country last year. But, effective networking is most necessary and productive in "gig" type economies.

In tech, meetups and such aren't always great networking opportunities because the way most technical people collaborate is in the work environment, and most people change jobs rarely. Contrast this with most musical relationships, where it's much easier to exchange information and call a new person for a gig, which happens many times per week usually.

I'm sensitive to this because early in my music career, I severely undervalued the value of networking, and watched many of my colleagues (all of whom were excellent at networking) get good gigs and opportunities. As soon as I realized I was undervaluing networking, I made a correction, and subsequently have had a much more satisfying life as a musician.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#70

Post by gertef »

enraged_camel wrote: post #62
pavlov wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add that many of the very best artists owe their careers to knowing the right person at the critical moment. In a recent interview, composer Randy Newman explained how childhood connections got him into the business: "Newman started writing songs because his childhood friend Lenny Waronker, who later became the president of Warner Bros. Records, suggested that he try it. “He knew who Carole King was and stuff…

The funny thing is that people get angry when the same logic is applied to tech legends. Wozniak would have stayed in HP and probsbly remained fairly unknown if Jobs had not convinced him to start Apple with him.

Woz+Jobs were a partnership, not cronyism. Both are people coming together to build something, but cronyism is when certain people are elevated over others for personal reasons unrelated to thei contribution to the work.
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