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Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

nytimes.com

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Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#51

Post by nerdponx »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #25

From the article: "It's true that networking can help you accomplish great things. But this obscures the opposite truth: Accomplishing great things help you develop a network." This is something that I wished I had understood way earlier in my career. Basically that cause and effect are often inverted when people talk about the network effect. People who do some thing well, or are passionate about, often will accumul…

For most people, it's typically difficult to accomplish great things without mentorship and support. Which, in turn, typically require a network of some kind, whether it be family, teachers and classmates, or professional contacts.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#52

Post by neerkumar »

projectramo wrote: post #32
neerkumar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. You can do great networking without having built anything. Say you are a student. Some startup founder starts a business where she targets college students. You like her business. You then reach out to her telling her you are emailing all students in your dept via internal dept email list or FB groups to let them know about her startup. That's great networking. That person will help you in future for…

Will they help you for sure? Or only if they know you are good at what you do?

I think if you put some effort to help people, you will get help regardless of your skills by many of them. But that help will not be that useful in the long run if you don't have the skills to take advantage of it.

Stupid example: if you have helped me in the past, and then ask me for a referral at my company, I will certainly do it regardless of your skills and I will get you an interview. But then it is up to you to pass the interview. Networking opens up opportunities. It doesn't make you successful. If you randomly meet me at a conference and ask for referral, I won't do it.

And that's really the kind of networking 95% of people are looking for. It is not meet the #1 investor in the world or similar.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#53

Post by neerkumar »

mattlondon wrote: post #42
loco5niner wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest attempt to be politically sensitive (say 'she' instead of 'he' sometimes) gets put down for not going far enough. Not helping the cause here.

The point I was trying to make is when referring to unspecified third-persons, dont say "help her". Say "help them". Women are often unfairly stereotyped as being less-skilled or less-capable than their male counter-parts in our industry. Suggesting those that need help are female is just the thin-end of the wedge on this and may go unnoticed by those using it - a "micro-aggression" as it is now being called - but it…

The problem with these things is that you end up stop writing or even talking cause you get so concerned about offending others...

English is not my mother tongue, and I actually thought here I was being sensitive, cause putting "he" would have implied only males are career oriented, etc. Didn't occur to me I could have put they.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#54

Post by pavlov »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #26

The article gives example of Justin Bieber and Adele. For those two examples, there are hundreds who got where they are just because they knew someone important. Miley Cyrus, Jaden Smith, Charlie Sheen, Ben Stiller, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton. Actors/singers make very poor examples for this given that most of them mostly get to where they are by networking more than anything else. Lets say there was an absolute mas…

I would add that many of the very best artists owe their careers to knowing the right person at the critical moment.

In a recent interview, composer Randy Newman explained how childhood connections got him into the business:

"Newman started writing songs because his childhood friend Lenny Waronker, who later became the president of Warner Bros. Records, suggested that he try it. “He knew who Carole King was and stuff. His dad had started a record company,” Newman said."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/randy-newman-co...

He is brilliant, but might have gone unnoticed if his best buddy had not been a second-generation record company executive.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#55

Post by gaius »

bitL wrote: post #15
a-saleh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that PHD is not a waste of time only if you plan to stay in academia. If writing papers and chasing grants is your jam, go for it. If you are looking for one more thing for your CV, don't bother with phd.

...unless you are in Europe, where it's an almost required gate to upper management.

Only in Germany, certainly not in the UK - here Eton trumps PhD every day of the week.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#56

Post by gaius »

neerkumar wrote: post #3

Horrible article. Networking doesn't mean asking someone for her email address or exchanging business cards. Networking means creating meaningful relationships based on mutual benefits. If you are in a position to help someone, help her. She will then help you back later on when she can. And this is by no means overrated. If anything is underrated.

Its the Mafia way. When they need something done they don't look in the Yellow Pages. They know a guy - a wiseguy - and he or she either owes them a favour already, or wants to have a favour in the bank. This is how I manage my career.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#57

Post by gaius »

et-al wrote: post #18
pasbesoin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But you should experience some of the "networking" advice that is foisted on the average job-seeker, fresh out of college or otherwise. One reason it is difficult for some people; it reeks of superficiality if not insincerity.

Yeah, there are explicit "networking events," which are generally horrible because there's no subtlety to them. Then there's tech meetups or conferences, where you and I might nerd out over common problems we've had to solve, and in the process realise that we might enjoy working with the other person. The thing is, one has to put in the work and put themself out there. Luck is what happens when preparation meets opp…

Everyone at a networking event is looking for a leg up, but the people who have something to trade don't attend networking events.

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#58

Post by amelius »

neerkumar wrote: post #17
projectramo wrote: post #6

Some of the other comments here focus on the poor examples of networking. What about the larger point: that networking is an effect of achievement, not a cause. If the author is correct, even "good" networking is not as effective as making something worth making. (I assume that this "maker" bias is intuitively appealing to the larger HN community.)

Not necessarily. You can do great networking without having built anything. Say you are a student. Some startup founder starts a business where she targets college students. You like her business. You then reach out to her telling her you are emailing all students in your dept via internal dept email list or FB groups to let them know about her startup. That's great networking. That person will help you in future for…

But at the same time, your fellow students will put you on an email blacklist :)

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#59

Post by seppin »

pavlov wrote: post #54
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #26

The article gives example of Justin Bieber and Adele. For those two examples, there are hundreds who got where they are just because they knew someone important. Miley Cyrus, Jaden Smith, Charlie Sheen, Ben Stiller, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton. Actors/singers make very poor examples for this given that most of them mostly get to where they are by networking more than anything else. Lets say there was an absolute mas…

I would add that many of the very best artists owe their careers to knowing the right person at the critical moment. In a recent interview, composer Randy Newman explained how childhood connections got him into the business: "Newman started writing songs because his childhood friend Lenny Waronker, who later became the president of Warner Bros. Records, suggested that he try it. “He knew who Carole King was and stuff…

brilliance and hard work guarantee absolutely nothing

Re: Good News for Young Strivers: Networking Is Overrated

#60

Post by devdad »

> "And don’t feel pressure to go to networking events. No one really mixes at mixers. Although we plan to meet new people, we usually end up hanging out with old friends."

Well yes, if you choose to. I wish the article could keep the focus of the positive effects that creating great things leads to, and not try to position it as an opposite of networking.

Networking is gold. Networkers that also produce extraordinary things will get even better results.

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