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The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

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Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#101

Post by deong »

derping69 wrote: post #41
bauerd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

US spends more on military than every Euro country combined. If they are attacked we have to defend them and they know it. They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked.

The fact that we spend too much by an order of magnitude or two doesn't mean the rest of the world is dependent on us. We don't spend this much because it's the only way to make the world safe. We spend this much because every Congressman has a some part of a defense contractor in their district and they'd rather build billion dollar boondoggles that the military leadership explicitly doesn't want than vote to close the local plant.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#102

Post by rb808 »

> Canada, France and China have been most open and aggressive about seeking out foreign talent studying in the United States. Financially, China's offers appear to be the most attractive.

This was an amazing thing for me how China can pay more than Europe (and America). How the world has changed in just a few decades.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#103

Post by WC3w6pXxgGd »

CorvusCrypto wrote: post #37
holydude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this to be pretty much a very biased subjective analogy. I am a european so I hope my "anti-european-rant" will be better accepted but lets see... Europeans often have this illusion of a working social democracy compared to the US suggesting their by default offered benefits to be superior to the offers from the US. That's not the case. In a lot of middle-income-class positions you get most of the things you…

So then I guess my takeaway is then that there's great and poor working expectations and conditions in both areas. I found the US to be a highly negative experience and don't wish the stress on anyone. Being able to go home at night and not have to be on call or work overtime because it's expected is a great relief. I'll take that over a 100k salary any day. And certainly over my middle income job in California. Howe…

There are LOTS of American companies. You just happened to work for one with on call and work overtime. Same as the fact there are loads of European companies with on call and employees work overtime.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#104

Post by ecshafer »

danmaz74 wrote: post #99
CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

> Well in Europe you usually get your 2 weeks Are there EU nations that give so little paid vacation? At least in the West, I think at least 3 weeks (non contiguous) is the norm...

In the us, I get 4 weeks and can take it basically however I want. I can choose to get 5 weeks by buying it. Depending on my team I might not be able to take the month leading up to taxes off, but a month off is easily done and happens often.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#105

Post by krapp »

notyourday wrote: post #62
bauerd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

Of course US does. We really need to acknowledge that. Don't believe it? Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO.

>Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO.

I wouldn't support the US reneging on its current security agreements, particularly with Japan, since we forced them into their current pacifist regime, but if South Korea, Japan and/or NATO wanted the US out, I wouldn't oppose it.

I'm afraid there's a point at which America's overwhelming military, cultural and political dominance itself becomes a problem. Even if one can argue that, as hegemonies go, you could do worse, superpowers and their chess games are also holding the world back.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#106

Post by landryraccoon »

derping69 wrote: post #17
CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

The US chooses to do this though. The US can stop doing this anytime it wants to, nobody is forcing us to.

If we don't like subsidizing Pharma companies maybe it should just stop doing it. It's not like Europe is asking us to. Similarly, I'm all for closing bases. If the US wants to close bases and cut military spending, who's stopping us?

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#107

Post by deong »

spikels wrote: post #67
rdtsc wrote: post #36

> The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain He got a good offer from his home country. Isn't that a good thing that he gets to go home to his country and contribute there? he fact they can spare $250k for him to buy a house and $1M in grant money says a lot about China. Having been in academia for a bit, it seemed there was an oversupply of PhD in some fields. There are just not going to be enough university teachi…

Hard to say what is really going on here or if there is even a problem at all. Academic positions have always been in short supply in many fields, particularly hard science. However I do get the sense it has gotten worse in recent decades but have no hard data. Are there actually fewer positions available? If so, what is the cause? There is lots of evidence that our universities have become less effective in both tea…

It's a combination of mainly two things.

1. More people are getting PhDs, which means if the job supply remained constant, higher percentages of people won't get a job.

2. There are fewer "real" academic jobs, because universities have evolved to focus on cost-cutting business practices, tenured faculty are expensive, and an endless stream of abused adjuncts has no down side except the quality of education provided by your university, and who cares about that anyway.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#108

Post by swuecho »

robotresearcher wrote: post #89
swuecho wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US postdoc pay is around 40K. Cannot believe Canada pay around 20K.

Depends on field. I paid my last postdoc $90K CAD ($72K USD). It's hard to find good postdocs in AI with the job market right now. For biologists or other oversupplied PhDs, salaries are much lower.

I guess both US and Canda pay simliar to postdoc, even in China, because all of them are low.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#109

Post by kgwgk »

athenot wrote: post #76
derping69 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

> Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. You conveniently forget the European drug companies who develop drugs—and completely pay for the research—while negotiating price ceilings, and then export the same drug to the US, selling it 5x the price for pure profit (minus distribution/marketing/lobby costs). Discl…

So they get (most of) their profit from the US market. How is that different from the point made in the message you reply to?

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#110

Post by deong »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #85
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #81

Because the article just offers a single example, and seems to center on the lack of available tenure track positions, I'm going to take a more holistic view that gets at the major issue: is current research funding at the appropriate level? What would happen if we increased research funding by X percent? How did we settle on the current funding levels? I would be curious to see a reasonable source for this. A cursor…

the article notes that US universities take 50% of a professor's research grant as operating overhead! (in China it's 10%.) maybe US universities are just not efficient enough. maybe US universities are basically bloated, government subsidized fat-cats that cannot compete in the global marketplace.

The university system was the envy of the world when it was run like a government program. It was only when we started running them like businesses that the system has gone pear-shaped.
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