The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain • Hacker News Board

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#41

Post by derping69 » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

bauerd wrote: post #38

derping69 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

US spends more on military than every Euro country combined. If they are attacked we have to defend them and they know it. They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#42

Post by forapurpose » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #7

Spooky23 wrote: post #3

The academic brain drain starts in middle school. Why are we pushing US kids into bankruptcy and importing brains who come with dollars?

Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I think everything America needs to succeed and grow can be found right here in America. The problem is that it's sometimes cheaper to import foreign labor, or export domestic production.

> everything America needs to succeed and grow can be found right here in America

This is clearly not true. If you look around you, much of what you own, use, etc. comes from other countries, including the ideas, science, and technology behind them. Just off the top of my head, in one industry: The web, Linux ... why would we think for a moment that Americans have superior ideas to everyone else?

Also, if the U.S. doesn't buy goods, services, labor, etc. from other countries, then they won't buy them from the U.S. The U.S. is only 5% of the world's population and maybe 20% of the world's market (due to the wealth of its citizens). A U.S. 'Brexit' from the world would be an economic disaster.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#43

Post by vostok » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

devrandomguy wrote: post #31

9t3h4r3o5w1a4w2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada doesn't pay half as well as US when it comes to research in STEM. Every country has great talent right now, except US has the money.

When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money. We don't have to pay as well, someone else will always be willing to ravage their own country to beat us at that game. We just have to not screw up the local society and environment as badly as the superpowers.

Sorry, can you flesh this out a little more? I'm not quite grasping how paying academics high wages is ravaging our country.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#44

Post by sverige » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

bauerd wrote: post #38

derping69 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

I totally agree. The US should withdraw all its military personnel and equipment from Europe as quickly as feasible.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#45

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

derping69 wrote: post #41

bauerd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

US spends more on military than every Euro country combined. If they are attacked we have to defend them and they know it. They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked.

> If they are attacked we have to defend them and they know it. They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked.

If? In the entire history of NATO, the mutual defense provisions of the treaty have been invoked exactly once, and that in response to an attack on the US, and the non-US NATO contributions were not insignificant.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#46

Post by forapurpose » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

derping69 wrote: post #41

bauerd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

US spends more on military than every Euro country combined. If they are attacked we have to defend them and they know it. They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked.

> They would contribute a relatively insignificant amount if we were ever attacked

Many Europeans gave their lives in Afghanistan, responding to an attack on the U.S., and also in Iraq on a fools errand. The U.S. is the predominant power, but that doesn't make others insignificant.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#47

Post by holydude » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

CorvusCrypto wrote: post #37

holydude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this to be pretty much a very biased subjective analogy. I am a european so I hope my "anti-european-rant" will be better accepted but lets see... Europeans often have this illusion of a working social democracy compared to the US suggesting their by default offered benefits to be superior to the offers from the US. That's not the case. In a lot of middle-income-class positions you get most of the things you…

So then I guess my takeaway is then that there's great and poor working expectations and conditions in both areas. I found the US to be a highly negative experience and don't wish the stress on anyone. Being able to go home at night and not have to be on call or work overtime because it's expected is a great relief. I'll take that over a 100k salary any day. And certainly over my middle income job in California. Howe…

Well I guess this is a classic case of the grass is greener on the other side :-). Enjoy living in here.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#48

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

derping69 wrote: post #17

CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

Defends against who and what...

If US stops initiated wars, I bet the world can be a safer place already...

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#49

Post by forapurpose » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

Another way the U.S. is risking a brain drain: I've read that in more than one state college enrollment is going down. Education seems to be going backward.

People assume the U.S. is a first-world country, but there's no reason it can't be like Russia or other nations with poor government, corruption, and a culture that doesn't value education.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#50

Post by dv_dt » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

derping69 wrote: post #17

CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

Drug makers spend more in marketing than R&D, and I strongly suspect that most of their marketing dollars are spent in the US. So all we're really subsidising is more marketing to doctors via our high cost health care system.

http://www.randalolson.com/2015/03/01/design-critique-puttin...