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Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#61

Post by user5994461 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #56
yebyen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to the story though (I'm not defending Aetna, I'm saying this is not only a problem for people who live around bigots.) Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is (edit: could be, if untreated) totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners, but arguably it's much worse for those people to be outed b…

I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but it's an important point that I have to address. > Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners This is itself based in old misinformation about HIV that serves to perpetuate harmful stigmas around HIV. HIV is treatable, and when p…

Source?

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#62

Post by blackguardx »

noonespecial wrote: post #48
sqeaky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be downvoted for normal and reasonable questions, or even for self doubt. Aetna is terrible. The lobby against healthcare reform at every turn. They didn't want obamacare/ACA they didn't want to compete accross state lines, they want to be able to exempt people from pre-existing conditions, they want to give people the run-around. They are not trustworthy and they are run by bad people. (don't beat up o…

>(don't beat up on their phone agents though, they are just trying to make ends meets). I've gotten very tired of this. Every time I'm on calls like this now I gently suggest to the phone agent that they know that what they are doing contributes to a system that hurts people and that they should try to do something more with their lives. Don't scream or bluster. Do it with gentleness and respect and get ready to be o…

I worked in a call center during high school. Everyone is there just for the paycheck. These call centers are usually in places with terrible economies and these centers are the only job option for many people.

I worked alongside many people in their 60s. Imagine doing that as a retirement plan.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#63

Post by germanier »

saas_sam wrote: post #58
pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

Yes we do have standard paper and envelope sizes in the US that are similar to Europe. What probably happened here is they printed the info in a dumb layout that was too close to the address field and/or whoever was running the folder-inserter machine did not move the tri-fold area to the right place. (Source: I used to sell these machines.)

The point is that the page layout, i.e. where the fold positions, address field, letter title, reference numbers, date, logo, and actual content go, is standardised as well (DIN 5008). Nobody forces you to use that standard but it frees your mind thinking about actually important stuff so everybody does.

This doesn't help against incorrectly using a folder-inserter but I have never seen that happen. What does the user need to do to have an incorrect fold?

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#64

Post by yebyen »

chimeracoder wrote: post #56
yebyen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to the story though (I'm not defending Aetna, I'm saying this is not only a problem for people who live around bigots.) Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is (edit: could be, if untreated) totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners, but arguably it's much worse for those people to be outed b…

I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but it's an important point that I have to address. > Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners This is itself based in old misinformation about HIV that serves to perpetuate harmful stigmas around HIV. HIV is treatable, and when p…

Huh, TIL. Thank you!

I haven't been personally in this situation, but I've been at a company that was afraid we were gonna lose the contract because of a miscommunication between their office and our office, where "no-contact" request was not honored.

I honestly had no idea what you just told me. My focus was on the illegal disclosure by the trusted health care company, because that was the angle I experienced a (much smaller scale) similar situation from.

(I know HIV clinics have no-contact lists, but I am skeptical whether or not health insurance companies do. This story is just a colossal mess, too many layers of wrong for me to comprehend.)

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#65

Post by sjg007 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #35
mabbo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome. I can't change my decision for another year, and then only to Blue Cross. Are they also terrible?

Right now I'm on the hook for 5 figures with BC/BS for my son's birth expenses, because HR screwed up his application. It's a Kafkaesque byzantine labyrinth of red tape and buck passing. I'm not sure they're evil, just bureaucratic.

I think that should be covered under the mom's insurance at least for 30 days post birth (at least in California). I could be wrong..

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#66

Post by blackguardx »

cgb223 wrote: post #19
mabbo wrote: post #2

Oh neat, I just signed up for Aetna (first time working in America since ACA). Is this normal for them? Am I an idiot?

I had COBRA healthcare through them and even though HR did all the paperwork and submitted it to Aetna, Aetna forgot to actually setup the policy. I found this out the hard way in the ER mid near fatal allergic reaction So yeah, you'll be fine...

Was this in California around 2008? There was a big scandal about this and now there are big fines for doing it.

A few insurers were accepting people (and accepting payment) without actually setting them up in the system. When many of these people went to use the insurance, they were told that not only did they not have insurance, they would be denied any insurance for having pre-existing conditions.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#68

Post by pinneycolton »

arkades wrote: post #59
LanceH wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number one rule is don't pay anything until it is resolved. The second you've made payment, nobody else cares to make any effort.

This is not something I'd recommend. Any lapse in payment will be used to suspend your policy in the future in the event you get flagged as a high-expense patient, backdated to the period you didn't pay your premiums on time. Pay on time, keep documentation you paid on time. Hell, turn on autopay and keep documentation on -that-. Don't ever think you can hold your premiums hostage. You'll only be screwing yourself. E…

I wonder if they meant that you shouldn't pay providers until things are sorted out. I agree that you need to pay your premiums, but doctors and hospitals will just send you to collections. Still not a great option, but it does keep the money in your pocket until things are sorted out. (Of course, I wouldn't do this unless I was very sure I was right, also, so that any collections issues would be an insurer/provider error.)

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#69

Post by munificent »

rdiddly wrote: post #54
pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

There is no standard that I'm aware of. On a related note, if I had a dollar (or a Euro) for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking, I'd have enough money to move to Germany.

> for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking

Sad that we apparently need to add "outlawing Nazis" to that list now.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#70

Post by bdamm »

chimeracoder wrote: post #41
slantedview wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aetna is terrible This is true, but I'd like to qualify this by saying that all of the for-profit insurers (and most of the non-profit ones) are terrible. Generating revenue is in direct conflict with providing patient care which is a fundamental flaw in the setup. It's a uniquely American problem.

> Generating revenue is in direct conflict with providing patient care Without revenue, there's no money to use to actually provide care. > It's a uniquely American problem. It's not at all. Aside from the fact that most of the world uses at least some degree of privatization in providing or paying for healthcare, even the few that don't do so at the metaphorical "last mile" (such as England) still suffer from the un…

In most developed nations outside America, a doctor's opinion carries more administrative weight. There may be an administrator, but if a doctor says a procedure is to be done, the payment can generally follow. A doctor is like an officer in that regard.

In America, the insurance company and their payment policies carry more weight than the doctor's decisions. This matters a great deal if you have a traumatic accident and require many surgeries, as happened to a friend of mine. In America, if you have a trauma, you are recommended to get a lawyer immediately to help your medical expenses be handled properly. Think about that... in America, if you get hurt, you need a lawyer almost a badly as you need a doctor. Not because you need to sue the cause, but because you need to encourage the insurance company. There's something fundamentally miserable about that.

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