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Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#51

Post by pluma »

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes?

In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant.

I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are standards, this boils down to either "Aetna used non-standard envelopes" or "Aetna formatted letter incorrectly".

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#52

Post by baddox »

pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

I don't know if there are actual codified standards, but I often receive letters (mostly bills) with the same envelope size and window placement. I would guess they just folded or ordered the contents of the envelope incorrectly.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#53

Post by [deleted] »

yebyen wrote: post #12
mabbo wrote: post #2

Oh neat, I just signed up for Aetna (first time working in America since ACA). Is this normal for them? Am I an idiot?

If you know how to "don't take no for an answer" I'll say optimistically, you'll be alright. My experience with my wife's health care (Aetna) has been that she will call, try to get an issue resolved, be told "there is no resolution possible" enough times by enough different people that she is ready to give up. Then we call together, and suddenly the story changes. The particular issue we were dealing with, is not re…

[deleted]

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#54

Post by rdiddly »

pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

There is no standard that I'm aware of. On a related note, if I had a dollar (or a Euro) for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking, I'd have enough money to move to Germany.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#55

Post by chaosphere2112 »

rcraft wrote: post #7
sqeaky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be downvoted for normal and reasonable questions, or even for self doubt. Aetna is terrible. The lobby against healthcare reform at every turn. They didn't want obamacare/ACA they didn't want to compete accross state lines, they want to be able to exempt people from pre-existing conditions, they want to give people the run-around. They are not trustworthy and they are run by bad people. (don't beat up o…

Are there any other insurers that don't do/want many of these same things?

For those in one of the covered regions[1], Kaiser Permanente is largely not-evil. You have to go through your GP to get referrals to specialists, but it's a series of mostly consistent "I have X problem" "Try Y" "Didn't work" "Try Z" "Didn't Work" "OK, let's get you to a specialist" events.

They have an interesting governance structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente) that tries to align incentives correctly.

[1]: Coverage areas as divided by corporate entities:

  Northern California
  Southern California
  Colorado
  Georgia
  Hawaii
  Mid-Atlantic (vicinity of Washington, D.C., including Maryland and Virginia)
  Northwest (Northwest Oregon and Southwest Washington)
  Washington (except Southwest Washington)

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#56

Post by chimeracoder »

yebyen wrote: post #45
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could have been prevented, though, and now folks could have to deal with a lot of harassment. There are still folks out there that think AIDS is a punishment from god for a sinful lifestyle or will assume you are gay (with all the discrimination that comes with it). Yet other folks finding out will simply stop using normal gestures with you and stand further back, simply because they are afraid they'll magically…

There are two sides to the story though (I'm not defending Aetna, I'm saying this is not only a problem for people who live around bigots.) Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is (edit: could be, if untreated) totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners, but arguably it's much worse for those people to be outed b…

I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but it's an important point that I have to address.

> Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners

This is itself based in old misinformation about HIV that serves to perpetuate harmful stigmas around HIV.

HIV is treatable, and when properly treated, cannot be transmitted[0]. That's not even taking into account other forms of HIV prevention that are practiced to reduce the risk of HIV transmission. While it's advisable for an HIV- to ask their partner's HIV status (and HCV, and other STD statues), a person with HIV under proper treatment should not be expected to proactively disclose that to every partner or potential partner, and it's not "totally unethical" for them to make the decision not to volunteer that information unasked.

[0] Decades of misinformation have drilled the false belief that HIV is always infectious into people's minds, to the point where public health groups are literally launching massive campaigns to correct this belief.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#57

Post by InitialLastName »

emodendroket wrote: post #46
maxerickson wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's intentionally built into the regulation though, if you can not carry a plan and then sign up for coverage whenever you need it, it isn't anything resembling insurance anymore. People are still really critical of the current regulation, where you can sign up during the enrollment period without any penalty.

That is really beside the point. The incentive for profit-driven insurers is not to pay for health coverage to whatever extent they can get away with.

Maybe we shouldn't be funding healthcare on a profit-driven basis then.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#58

Post by saas_sam »

pluma wrote: post #51

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are sta…

Yes we do have standard paper and envelope sizes in the US that are similar to Europe. What probably happened here is they printed the info in a dumb layout that was too close to the address field and/or whoever was running the folder-inserter machine did not move the tri-fold area to the right place. (Source: I used to sell these machines.)

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#59

Post by arkades »

LanceH wrote: post #50
arkades wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) know who to appeal to outside the company. This is the nuclear option. It's usually listed in fine print on every paper denial. 2) "My (partner) works in insurance. He does shit like this for a living. Please don't make me have to (goto 1)". 3) Feel free to cite the law where relevant, on paper, certified mail. The response is invariably "this is wrong, you misunderstand the law, but we will make an exception and…

The number one rule is don't pay anything until it is resolved. The second you've made payment, nobody else cares to make any effort.

This is not something I'd recommend. Any lapse in payment will be used to suspend your policy in the future in the event you get flagged as a high-expense patient, backdated to the period you didn't pay your premiums on time.

Pay on time, keep documentation you paid on time. Hell, turn on autopay and keep documentation on -that-.

Don't ever think you can hold your premiums hostage. You'll only be screwing yourself.

Edit: if you're referring to clinic bills, be sure you're in active communication with the practice manager so you don't get sent to collections. If it's a hospital, you'll be sent to collections anyway - they automate that process, once you're sufficiently late.

Re: Aetna accidentally exposed customer HIV statuses in clear envelope windows

#60

Post by wicker »

chimeracoder wrote: post #56
yebyen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to the story though (I'm not defending Aetna, I'm saying this is not only a problem for people who live around bigots.) Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is (edit: could be, if untreated) totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners, but arguably it's much worse for those people to be outed b…

I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but it's an important point that I have to address. > Some non-zero percent of those 12k people live with a partner who doesn't know their HIV status. It is totally unethical for those people to fail to disclose their status to their partners This is itself based in old misinformation about HIV that serves to perpetuate harmful stigmas around HIV. HIV is treatable, and when p…

Here's the PARTNER study, which found no HIV transmissions after nearly 900 sero-discordant couples had sex without condoms more than 58,000 times where the HIV-positive partner was using suppressive antiretroviral therapy.

Q&A: http://i-base.info/qa-on-the-partner-study/

Full study: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2533066

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