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The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

theguardian.com

31–40 of 73 posts

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#31
post #7

> Now, fellers can earn as little as $18 an hour. So they get paid a little more than someone serving burgers in California but have to deal with much more remote, skilled, difficult, dangerous work. I'm getting really tired of articles posing this sort of thing as a "labor shortage".

There's always been work and there have always been people looking for work. The problem is the people 'in charge' would rather scalp people's wages and lives instead.

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#32
The first three paragraphs of the article describe a job that is essentially guaranteed to be taken over by autonomous vehicles and AI in the coming years. Plus pay is low, and the work is dangerous. It's unclear why the rest of the article laments that millennials don't want to learn that work.

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#33
post #7

> Now, fellers can earn as little as $18 an hour. So they get paid a little more than someone serving burgers in California but have to deal with much more remote, skilled, difficult, dangerous work. I'm getting really tired of articles posing this sort of thing as a "labor shortage".

[deleted]

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#34
post #7

> Now, fellers can earn as little as $18 an hour. So they get paid a little more than someone serving burgers in California but have to deal with much more remote, skilled, difficult, dangerous work. I'm getting really tired of articles posing this sort of thing as a "labor shortage".

Exactly. The oil companies got tons of workers in the middle of the frozen hellhole Alberta tar sands, and the mining companies got tons of workers in the middle of scorching desert Australia.

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#35
post #4

maybe the industry should pay young people more for their labor...

$18 dollars an hour for arguably the most dangerous job in the country. That doesn't seem like a great deal to you?

How about: underwater welder, fisherman, skydiving instructor, firefighter, electrician, policeman, astronaut, or sanitation engineer?

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#36

When even a left-wing outlet like The Guardian is willing to uncritically echo capital's BS about "labor shortages" when the real cause is a lack of willingness to pay real wages, you know we're in trouble. Seriously, $18/hr. for the most dangerous job in the country? I'd tell those people to get fucked.

[deleted]

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#37

This sounds like yet another market problem being blamed on "millennials". If you pay enough I'd imagine some people would take the job. If you can't pay enough, then I guess the market is speaking to you about the long term outlook for logging.

I don't blame people for not flocking to an extremely dangerous and grueling job only to be underpaid. There's plenty of other options. I get tired of older generations somehow trying to guilt trip us into continuing in their line of work when in reality those jobs weren't very good to begin with. Work smarter not harder. Maybe they never heard of that.

half the article is basically about working smarter. new machinery that can do the work of 8 men and is much safer than the old manual methods... And the crews using these machines do attract young people. It sounds like the young people joining the industry are just decided to join crews that have greater safety and the latest technology, which means their jobs are less likely to disappear as the technology spreads; in fact, they'll be those with the most experience with new methods rather than those with the least experience with old methods.

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#38

I'm old enough to remember a time when shit jobs paid really well because, well, they were shit jobs. Let's take the bottom of the barrel: bailing hay in the August heat of the Midwest. Dead simple job: take heavy bail of hay, put it on truck. Alternatively, take bail from truck, put in barn. Anyone with two working synapses could do it. And it paid the equivalent to $16/hour in 2017 dollars. Great job for a high sch…

Hang on. The longshoreman part is a bit more complicated than that. Longshoreman was actually not a shit job. The workers had a great deal of flexibility and good pay for the hours worked. The labor unions protected them too. What caused that job to decline and disappear was the container box. The container box moved the packing and unpacking part from the source and destination instead of the ports. During the Vietnam war, the US military basically forced the ports to adopt container boxes. This dramatically increased the efficiency of shipping and eradicated longshoremen jobs. Nowadays though, the people operating the cranes loading and unloading the container boxes from/to container ships actually make 6 digit salaries.

The problem with shit jobs is that they tend to be "muscle" based jobs in unpleasant conditions, which makes them vulnerable to automation and mechanization.

(Source for all this is: The Box (https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Econom...)

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#39
post #22
post #7

> Now, fellers can earn as little as $18 an hour. So they get paid a little more than someone serving burgers in California but have to deal with much more remote, skilled, difficult, dangerous work. I'm getting really tired of articles posing this sort of thing as a "labor shortage".

This is exactly right. The notion of "labor shortages" is a farce. It is rhetoric used to bully politicians into making policy decisions that keep wages/salaries low. There is no such thing as a labor shortage in a labor market.

What about highly specific technical roles for which there are few paths to fulfilling? Wouldn't that qualify as a shortage in labour supply?

Re: The job no one wants: young people won't work in logging

#40
post #7

> Now, fellers can earn as little as $18 an hour. So they get paid a little more than someone serving burgers in California but have to deal with much more remote, skilled, difficult, dangerous work. I'm getting really tired of articles posing this sort of thing as a "labor shortage".

I'm going to take an unpopular opinion here, but with the increases in minimum wage in California to $15/hr by 2020 - driven by increased cost of living - these jobs will be paying slightly more than minimum wage. No doubt, the answer is "increase the logging wage", which, in reality, will happen across all skilled occupations which are now suddenly just above the minwage line. And what will be the result? Increased cost of living again.

I don't know what the answer is, but perpetually increasing the minwage just so we can play catch-up to perpetual increases in cost of living is probably not it. The goal would be, of course, to examine why cost of living is on such an upward trajectory and try to stabilize or reduce it even. As to how that can be achieved? That's an open question.

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