Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 399 posts

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#41

Post by maxerickson »

jballanc wrote: post #11

Honestly, I don't understand why the automobile industry doesn't learn from the airline industry. Airplanes have worked out how to balance autopilot capabilities with the need for pilots to remain engaged and attentive for years. Simply implement a Drive-By-Wire, similar to Airbus' Fly-By-Wire systems. A driver's inputs to the controls would still be required, but the autonomous systems could prevent or limit certain…

They are doing stuff like this.

Lane departure warning and collision warning systems are pretty prevalent. And even autobraking collision avoidance systems are getting pretty widespread.

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#42

Post by nilkn »

gambiting wrote: post #17
smileysteve wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it works. better than a human. > 90-99% of the time. Mostly, the drivers, insurance, companies and other people on the road have fewer accidents.

I absolutely disagree. It can't be better than humans. It needs to be flawless. Any problems where people get killed will delay public acceptance of the technology by decades, even if "statistically it's safer than humans". People don't give a damn about statistics, they give a damn about tabloids shouting "self driving cars kill another innocent person!!!". We literally can't afford that.

I think there's real-world evidence that this is not the case. There have already been deaths due to Autopilot, and the reaction you're describing here didn't happen.

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#43

Post by greglindahl »

empath75 wrote: post #29
greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other companies are also shipping Level-2 systems. US law says that the driver has responsibility for accidents with a Level 2 system. And Tesla shows constant reminders to drivers.

The law is one thing, but if a system works most of the time, can you really blame a driver for drifting away and doing something else. It's asking a lot for a driver to remain focused on baby sitting a robot. I'd rather just drive.

How well does the Tesla reminder system work for you?

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#44

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

tdees40 wrote: post #20

I just ordered a Model S with Autopilot, and as I've been reading the comments on the various Tesla forums, I'm not sure I'm ever going to use it. Some of the stories are honestly terrifying (sudden deceleration on the highway, swerving into other lanes, etc).

Would you still be concerned in a situation where you were the only car on the road?

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#45

Post by gambiting »

a13n wrote: post #34
gambiting wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely disagree. It can't be better than humans. It needs to be flawless. Any problems where people get killed will delay public acceptance of the technology by decades, even if "statistically it's safer than humans". People don't give a damn about statistics, they give a damn about tabloids shouting "self driving cars kill another innocent person!!!". We literally can't afford that.

So you're saying we should let more people die (via human driving) to avoid people getting upset over tabloids ignoring statistics?

We are already "letting more people die" for economic reasons. We could mandate that all cars on the road should have the most modern 15+ airbag systems, but it's too costly. We could mandate that the speed limit should be 30mph and limited in hardware, but it's too costly economically, yet I don't think anyone can argue that it wouldn't save lives.

We make these exact choices all the time. I am saying we should "let more people die" now, so that we can save more later. That's not a novel concept.

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#46

Post by kevinh »

a13n wrote: post #34
gambiting wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely disagree. It can't be better than humans. It needs to be flawless. Any problems where people get killed will delay public acceptance of the technology by decades, even if "statistically it's safer than humans". People don't give a damn about statistics, they give a damn about tabloids shouting "self driving cars kill another innocent person!!!". We literally can't afford that.

So you're saying we should let more people die (via human driving) to avoid people getting upset over tabloids ignoring statistics?

It seems like the person you're responding to believes that the deaths from low-quality self-driving cars will cause the technology to not come to fruition, saving less lives in the long run.

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#47

Post by [deleted] »

cletus wrote: post #39

What befuddles me is that in all these discussions about self-driving cars seemingly no one refers to the massive body of knowledge in this area that comes from the aviation world. I've posted variants of this same comment several times and I'm starting to feel like a broken record. Look at studies of efforts to make planes safer by removing the human element. While efforts like autopilot have made things safer it re…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#48

Post by belltaco »

empath75 wrote: post #29
greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other companies are also shipping Level-2 systems. US law says that the driver has responsibility for accidents with a Level 2 system. And Tesla shows constant reminders to drivers.

The law is one thing, but if a system works most of the time, can you really blame a driver for drifting away and doing something else. It's asking a lot for a driver to remain focused on baby sitting a robot. I'd rather just drive.

True but if it does reduce the overall accident rate, it might still make sense. Better experience for the driver and better safety are still welcome features. If you'd rather just drive then you're increasing the chance for accidents. Everyone thinks they're a great driver.

Re: Tesla’s Push to Build a Self-Driving Car Sparks Dissent Among Its Engineers

#50

Post by verytrivial »

alexanderstears wrote: post #13
jballanc wrote: post #11

Honestly, I don't understand why the automobile industry doesn't learn from the airline industry. Airplanes have worked out how to balance autopilot capabilities with the need for pilots to remain engaged and attentive for years. Simply implement a Drive-By-Wire, similar to Airbus' Fly-By-Wire systems. A driver's inputs to the controls would still be required, but the autonomous systems could prevent or limit certain…

There's a norm of competence in airline pilots. We can't say the same for automobile drivers.

Plus the sky is, on average, empty.
Post reply on HN