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A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

thoriumenergyworld.com

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Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#151
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly: any such rebranding would ignore how we got into the current predicament to begin with... Oil, gas, and coal companies have known about climate change for decades, and it represents a threat to untold megabillions worth of profits and business. It is no coincidence they have been pushing anti-nuclear FUD, sponsoring hack research, pushing "green" blogs, NIMBY campaigns, and such for decades. Coordin…

It's all quite baffling, because they could instead of invested some of those megabillions in extending their reach into low-carbon energy sources, embracing the new world and continuing to exist.

The thing is, the reason they have those megabillions and continue to make money is the institutional knowledge they have of how to run a mature business in the industry they're in. Parts of that will translate over to nuclear power or whatever comes next, but for a very significant chunk of it, they're competing with every other business in the new industry, many of which will have a lot less baggage - which is incredibly risky.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of people have tried to rebrand our most energy-dense fuels (uranium and thorium). "Terrestrial Energy" comes to mind. And the unofficial Thorium PR lead, Kirk Sorensen, rebranded the Thorium-Molten Salt Reactor (T-MSR) as the LFTR (Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor) because "lifter" sounds better. As an engineer I'm a stickler on accurate naming so this suggestion bothers me, and I think the opposing forces wi…

One of the major problems is we were told our current reactors would provide safe and environmentally fuel. The trouble is it's not as clean as most people think. Mining Uranium ore does have a significant environmental impact. There have been leaks at plants; trace amounts of tritium has been found around breeder reactors like Watts Bar (and TVA has bought up more and more of the land around the area). The waste, cu…

or, you know, get fusion to work /sarcasm

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even coal which has long been the cheapest but dirty option is having trouble competing. *with $2 Natural Gas The solar/wind $23/MWh production tax credit is not really something that's easy for anyone to compete with, except natural gas. [1] You're right that nuclear needs to get its costs down, especially to play in the west. We know it can be done because the French electrified nearly their entire grid with nuke…

> Building tornado-hardened designs in tsunami zones does not pay off The big issues are keeping our construction, engineering, and regulatory agencies active with the subject material and with industry, and allowing saner reactor technologies into commercial use. Fukishima was not far off from surviving that catastrophe as was. More robust training for emergency response would have avoided them pumping the water the…

All that needed to be done was house the emergency generators in a tsunami-proof building.

Even then, there was time to bring in backup generators, and they were brought - but idiotically the connectors were wrong and they couldn't be connected in time.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was the other way around in fact. That they don't produce nuke-weapon-ready material meant that this avenue was not profitable from a security perspective. I may be recalling this incorrectly and I haven't re-checked but I think that's correct?

No, that is incorrect, though it has often been repeated by less technically informed advocates of the thorium fuel cycle. The vast majority of the world's commercial nuclear reactors are light-water-moderated pressurized water reactors or boiling water reactors (PWR and BWR respectively). The actual military origins of these light water reactors is that they were originally researched for submarine and ship propulsi…

The issue wasn't "light water reactors" it was "uranium fuel cycle". Cheap uranium definitely benefited the US government.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#155
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this are why I don't bother getting my tech & science news from anywhere but HN.

I've seen an increase in the number of NLP bots that give snippets, but they're far from consistently being accurate. Are there any services that can give you summations like this, kind of like the WSJ's What's News section?

There's one on reddit that does a great job.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is incorrect, though it has often been repeated by less technically informed advocates of the thorium fuel cycle. The vast majority of the world's commercial nuclear reactors are light-water-moderated pressurized water reactors or boiling water reactors (PWR and BWR respectively). The actual military origins of these light water reactors is that they were originally researched for submarine and ship propulsi…

The issue wasn't "light water reactors" it was "uranium fuel cycle". Cheap uranium definitely benefited the US government.

And going back one step Recurecur, isn't a very large part of the the issue "fissionable plutonium" (because bombs) which motivates the "uranium fuel cycle" which means the "thorium fuel cycle" isn't half so interesting.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of people have tried to rebrand our most energy-dense fuels (uranium and thorium). "Terrestrial Energy" comes to mind. And the unofficial Thorium PR lead, Kirk Sorensen, rebranded the Thorium-Molten Salt Reactor (T-MSR) as the LFTR (Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor) because "lifter" sounds better. As an engineer I'm a stickler on accurate naming so this suggestion bothers me, and I think the opposing forces wi…

One of the major problems is we were told our current reactors would provide safe and environmentally fuel. The trouble is it's not as clean as most people think. Mining Uranium ore does have a significant environmental impact. There have been leaks at plants; trace amounts of tritium has been found around breeder reactors like Watts Bar (and TVA has bought up more and more of the land around the area). The waste, cu…

I'm going to start off saying we NEED Yucca Mountain, BUT you seem to think this stuff is more dangerous than it is. Myself and many others that work with these technologies aren't actually happy about the new John Oliver episode.

> Mining Uranium ore does have a significant environmental impact.

I'm glad you bring that up. To actually understand how much of an impact we need to compare it to things. The human mind isn't good at putting into perspective raw numbers when they are that large, it's just "a lot". When you include the mining of both solar and uranium plants, you actually get around the same total environmental impact. I make this comparison because I've never heard anyone complain about the switch to solar. When we compare to coal mining, fracking, or oil drilling, uranium is tiny. Or even comparing to computers and cell phones.

> The waste, currently held on site at most plants, is another big issue.

I carry a vial of tritium around in my pocket? Why? Because it glows and is a fun conversation. I have no worry about it irradiating my junk because it is a beta emitter that has low penetrating power (~6mm of air). The danger of tritium is soft tissue. So just don't drink it or rub it in your eyes. Granted a leak is more worrisome, but its danger is nowhere near that of the heavy elements. There will always be some waste, but nuclear has done a pretty good job compared to other energy sources because of the fear. Some fear is healthy, especially with this tech. But, again, we NEED Yucca Mountain. There's not much waste, but we should put it in the proper place.

> While newer reactors may not have these problems, the fact is there are problems we weren't aware up that cropped up...

You're discussing concerns about decades old technologies. Remember, that was the same era we were arguing over lead in gasoline, asbestos, and aerosols. Sure, we have problems today, but it isn't the same magnitude. No one in their right mind would shoot a nuclear waste container, or even put it in that small of a container anymore. Things have really changed in the last 50 years, and nuclear tech has been progressing in that time too.

>I don't think that will go away unless someone discovered how to make Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs) viable

Call it what it is, cold fusion. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. But ITER and other fusion facilities are showing promising results. But fusion is not just a different ballpark from fission, it is a completely different game (energy and safety).

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#158
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they need huge subsides to cover the risks, and even then it costs more than other clean alternatives. How much solar/wind + pumped hydro can you buy just from the costs associated with Fukushima Daiichi cleanup / evacuation etc? Even coal which has long been the cheapest but dirty option is having trouble competing.

> Even coal which has long been the cheapest but dirty option is having trouble competing. *with $2 Natural Gas The solar/wind $23/MWh production tax credit is not really something that's easy for anyone to compete with, except natural gas. [1] You're right that nuclear needs to get its costs down, especially to play in the west. We know it can be done because the French electrified nearly their entire grid with nuke…

I think it is important to understand why Westinghouse went bankrupt though. And that's because they didn't (couldn't) use of the biggest breakthroughs of the 20th century: mass production.

> Nukes produce 65% of the carbon-free electricity in the USA right now; they're already our climate champions.

And this is the reason I fight tooth and nail for it. If we're to meet our emission goals for 2050, we have to build more nuclear. A diversified portfolio of energy sources is key.

Re: A Thorium-Salt Reactor Has Fired Up for the First Time in Four Decades

#160
post #10

Better explanation here (linked from Technology Review): http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/news/finally-worlds-first-... More details on the experiment sequence: https://public.ornl.gov/conferences/MSR2016/docs/Presentatio... This is not actually a reactor test because the thorium-bearing salt does not attain criticality. It's a sequence of materials tests using thorium-containing salt mixtures in small crucibles ins…

Ok, we'll change the url to that first link, instead of https://www.technologyreview.com/the-download/608712/a-thori... . Thanks!

Thanks Dang!
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