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Is the open office layout dead?

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Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#251

Post by Aeolun »

emerged wrote: post #169
kelnos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the aversion toward cubicles is more psychological and association-based than really makes sense. A cubicle is (as a sibling poster pointed out) just an office without a door. Sure, the walls don't always go all the way to the ceiling, and they're thinner than real walls, but they serve a similar purpose. I think we just grew up through the Dilbert-esque "cubicle farm" revolt, and we have negative associa…

I pretty much agree. They also feel like shantytowns in a way since they are flimsy pieces of material. I'd imagine that a nicer looking quality framework of wood without the ghastly florescent lighting would go a long way to improve perception.

It's funny, since I see restaurants that generate only $70 per meal (around 2 hours or so?) build super elegant wooden partitions that accomplish the exact same thing that cubicles do in an office environment.

It seems like it shouldn't be too expensive to do that...

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#252

Post by tome »

george_ciobanu wrote: post #196
davb wrote: post #7

> No designated desks I hate hot desking. I know it's very subjective but when I come into an office for eight hours a day, five days a week, I like to personalise my workspace. I don't drive, I take public transport and walk, and hate carting my laptop and charger around with me. I want my own space, with meeting rooms and collaboration spaces for when I need those things. I may be alone in saying so, but I'd happil…

See Joel Spolski's floor design.

Link? There are some articles by Joel about offices but nothing that seems like "floor design".

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#253

Post by Aeolun »

morgante wrote: post #108
davb wrote: post #7

> No designated desks I hate hot desking. I know it's very subjective but when I come into an office for eight hours a day, five days a week, I like to personalise my workspace. I don't drive, I take public transport and walk, and hate carting my laptop and charger around with me. I want my own space, with meeting rooms and collaboration spaces for when I need those things. I may be alone in saying so, but I'd happil…

> I may be alone in saying so, but I'd happily take a modest drop in pay for a private office. My friend felt this so strongly that he actually rents a private office (that he pays for himself) right next to his employer's office.

I've considered doing the same thing. Offices are not ridiculously expensive, and it's really pleasant to be able to control the AC yourself :/

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#254

Post by Aeolun »

spinningarrow wrote: post #243
davb wrote: post #7

> No designated desks I hate hot desking. I know it's very subjective but when I come into an office for eight hours a day, five days a week, I like to personalise my workspace. I don't drive, I take public transport and walk, and hate carting my laptop and charger around with me. I want my own space, with meeting rooms and collaboration spaces for when I need those things. I may be alone in saying so, but I'd happil…

I definitely get the point about personalising (it's not for me, but I know many people like it), but having to cart your laptop + charger can easily be solved with lockers. The place I currently work at does hot desks, but everyone has lockers for their personal belongings and things they don't want to lug around which, so far, has been striking a happy balance.

You have to set it up every day though? I hate having to plug in everything after every time I take my laptop out somewhere. I'd much rather have a fixed computer that just stays there.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#255

Post by dnh44 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #242
throwaway0255 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. And how much does it cost to have your entire engineering team audibly and visually distracted and annoyed 100% of the time? Environmental factors that decrease engineer productivity may not show up on a balance sheet, but the cost is massive. Can you get an engineer an office for less than $40k/year? Then it's…

I don't understand how it can be so expensive, I can rent a serviced office for two people locally for £400/month. This is without the economies of scale of an organisation.

It'd be about £400/month where I am as well, and I'm guessing you're not in London/Cambridge/Oxford.

Also since you're in the UK don't forget about rates (local property taxes that businesses pay in the UK). Once you're beyond a certain size this tax will jump from £50 a month to over £1000.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#256

Post by mattmanser »

hota_mazi wrote: post #176
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company How do you quantify the loss in productivity and quality that could be associated with a noisy work environment?

It's quantified, along with the gains from ease of access to everyone and the increased communications and social geling of everyone. Individual offices are simply not worth it, financially, culturally and physically.

The entire article, and all the studies, flatly contradict you.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#257

Post by throwaway0255 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #242
throwaway0255 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. And how much does it cost to have your entire engineering team audibly and visually distracted and annoyed 100% of the time? Environmental factors that decrease engineer productivity may not show up on a balance sheet, but the cost is massive. Can you get an engineer an office for less than $40k/year? Then it's…

I don't understand how it can be so expensive, I can rent a serviced office for two people locally for £400/month. This is without the economies of scale of an organisation.

This is the part that makes the least sense to me, too. They talk about cost in terms that don't even take into account the reason for wanting offices.

You don't want offices because of feng shui, you want them because of the positive impact they're going to have on productivity / retention / talent acquisition. And yet their rationalizations rarely include anything but real estate costs.

I just don't get it. If a private office would improve an engineer's productivity by 5%, that's over $1k/month in payroll savings they could put toward their 8x8 square with a door.

Now consider that the actual improvement to productivity vs open offices is probably more like 20%, and that an 8x8 square with a door in commercial zoning isn't even close to 1k/month, and that you're also improving your ability to attract and retain top talent.

But don't worry, we have plenty of room for nap pods and massage chairs.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#258

Post by mianos »

It seems to me, inn Sydney, open offices are being used even more. If they are such shite, who is making the decisions? As far as I can see, from this thread, many others and talking to people, anecdotally, the most minor set of people actually like them. Who is making the decisions? What will change this? Refusal, mutiny? I have been told, if I don't like open offices I would not be a suitable employee because everyone else does. In my current firm I went as far as organising the place for us to move. A mix of rooms, some large, some small. It rocks compared to the open office in the last place.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#259

Post by drunkenmonkey »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #257
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how it can be so expensive, I can rent a serviced office for two people locally for £400/month. This is without the economies of scale of an organisation.

This is the part that makes the least sense to me, too. They talk about cost in terms that don't even take into account the reason for wanting offices. You don't want offices because of feng shui, you want them because of the positive impact they're going to have on productivity / retention / talent acquisition. And yet their rationalizations rarely include anything but real estate costs. I just don't get it. If a pr…

It seems that they have not yet determined that having a secondary off-site with private offices and meeting spaces is worth the investment.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#260

Post by moogly »

AriaMinaei wrote: post #247

I wish someone who works at Pixar could comment in this thread. They've had private offices ever since the steve jobs building, and often you hear that private, customized offices is one of the things that they love about their workplace. The Steve Jobs building is designed to increase chance of random encounters between people to stimulate collaboration, but these encounters happen in the hallways and the designated…

Someone did in an earlier thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14963985
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