Is the open office layout dead? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#171

Post by jamie_ca » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:37 AM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #144

bsder wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a 1440 vertical pixel monitor? Real 4K monitors are effectively the same price and have a lot more pixels. And you can get them in 27", 32" and 34" sizes. Sure, I understand why the manufacturers want these odd kinds of resolutions so that they can take defective panels and carve them up differently. However, why would the users want these instead of more resolution? What am I missing?

1440 vertical pixels in a 34" 21:9 monitor means you usually don't have to worry about whether your software can adapt to a non-standard DPI. At about 109 DPI, it's the same as a typical 27" 16:9 panel, just with more pixels off to the side. The density is a bit higher than the typical ~94 DPI of a 24" 16:10 display, but the difference can be tolerated by most users. Jumping up to 140 DPI (32" 4k 16:9) is enough that…

27" iMac has been 2560×1440 from 2009 until they went retina in 2014 (and they're now double in both dimensions, so same logical resolution).

At arm's length, on a 27" screen, 1440p is very practical. Getting more screen space than 1080p is what bumped me from 21-24" screens, and it fills my vision enough that if I jumped to 4k I'd either be moving my head back and forth with a 40" screen, dealing with even smaller UI elements, or wrestling with OS scaling.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#172

Post by nurettin » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:37 AM UTC

>> Propst himself accused companies of manipulating his original idea into “hellholes.”

Ironic.

This so-called visionary had no idea his futuristic ideals would be twisted by the drive to increase profit by cutting corners in an economy where people are seen as milking cattle.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#173

Post by hota_mazi » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:39 AM UTC

throwaway0255 wrote: post #166

Roritharr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've recently moved into new offices in Frankfurt/Germany and being the CTO of our 40 Person Startup gave me an in-depth look at all the calculations involved. It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. I've fought tooth and nail to keep everyone in small team offices( We've got two small rooms set aside as flex-desks(complete with 2 4K Monitors & Gigabit…

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. And how much does it cost to have your entire engineering team audibly and visually distracted and annoyed 100% of the time? Environmental factors that decrease engineer productivity may not show up on a balance sheet, but the cost is massive. Can you get an engineer an office for less than $40k/year? Then it's…

You're painting open offices in a completely negative light without seeing that they also have upsides.

I'm in the same position as the CTO above and giving everyone a private office in my company is not even remotely close to being financially feasible. What's more, a lot of engineers actually voiced a preference for open space plans over individual offices.

Cubicles are on the table as an acceptable compromise but given the growth at which we're hiring and growing, it's just not physically feasible.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#174

Post by jsmeaton » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:39 AM UTC

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #167

Roritharr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've recently moved into new offices in Frankfurt/Germany and being the CTO of our 40 Person Startup gave me an in-depth look at all the calculations involved. It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. I've fought tooth and nail to keep everyone in small team offices( We've got two small rooms set aside as flex-desks(complete with 2 4K Monitors & Gigabit…

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company How do you quantify the loss in productivity and quality that could be associated with a noisy work environment?

Opex vs capex

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#175

Post by northwest65 » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:40 AM UTC

throwaway0255 wrote: post #166

Roritharr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've recently moved into new offices in Frankfurt/Germany and being the CTO of our 40 Person Startup gave me an in-depth look at all the calculations involved. It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. I've fought tooth and nail to keep everyone in small team offices( We've got two small rooms set aside as flex-desks(complete with 2 4K Monitors & Gigabit…

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. And how much does it cost to have your entire engineering team audibly and visually distracted and annoyed 100% of the time? Environmental factors that decrease engineer productivity may not show up on a balance sheet, but the cost is massive. Can you get an engineer an office for less than $40k/year? Then it's…

I would really encourage you to move on the interviewing as soon as you can. I was in your position, desperately unhappy with the working conditions, and now I'm in a small quiet office with 4 to 5 other people and I have never been happier in my work.

In the meantime, get yourself a set of Bose Quiet Comfort 35s. An absolutely life changing piece of equipment for me at least. If nothing else you will comfortable enjoy the movies on the next flight you catch instead of having to crank the volume to the maximum to barely hear it over the constant background roar of the engines.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#176

Post by hota_mazi » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:40 AM UTC

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #167

Roritharr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've recently moved into new offices in Frankfurt/Germany and being the CTO of our 40 Person Startup gave me an in-depth look at all the calculations involved. It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company. I've fought tooth and nail to keep everyone in small team offices( We've got two small rooms set aside as flex-desks(complete with 2 4K Monitors & Gigabit…

> It's simply horrible how expensive it would be to give private offices even to >3 people in our company How do you quantify the loss in productivity and quality that could be associated with a noisy work environment?

It's quantified, along with the gains from ease of access to everyone and the increased communications and social geling of everyone.

Individual offices are simply not worth it, financially, culturally and physically.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#177

Post by hota_mazi » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:41 AM UTC

emerged wrote: post #111

LambdaComplex wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about cubicles?

I would honestly rather change careers than work in a cubicle. They give me a feeling of deep existential dread. Do some actually prefer them?

So you prefer open floor plans to cubicles?

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#178

Post by hota_mazi » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:45 AM UTC

concede_pluto wrote: post #63

vacri wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A colleague had another problem with hot desks - a visitor would arrive at his floor and ask "Is Bob here?" => "I don't know". Without hot desks, you know where Bob sits and have a good chance of finding him. With hot desks, the visitor now has to work to find Bob, as does the person receiving the visitor.

If a face-to-face conversation is important, one of us will spend two minutes finding a good time and booking a meeting. If it's an emergency, my team has a pagerduty rotation. Showing up at my desk is not the best way to do anything.

That's adding a lot of paperwork and process for something that should be done in a few minutes.

You're excessively reducing productivity if you require each face to face to require a meeting booking.

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#179

Post by gargarplex » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:47 AM UTC

I rented a private office in Manhattan for $900/month. i.e., <10% of my salary. This is a no-brainer... Why not just rent each individual engineer a private office? Why the need to own the office space? Company identity/"cult"ure?

Re: Is the open office layout dead?

#180

Post by flukus » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 4:48 AM UTC

mixedCase wrote: post #9

banach wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how you classify "space to get into the zone" as an employee benefit, while all that does is increase your productivity. But I guess that could mean going home earlier...

It's an employee benefit because it makes work more enjoyable. Being stuck in a problem that you can normally tackle with relative ease when "in the zone" is extremely frustrating.

Even when you hate the work, getting in the zone and coding makes the time pass quicker.