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Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

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Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#31

Post by khazhoux »

BadassFractal wrote: post #24

Nobody I know in the SV founder/investor scene talks openly about their sex worker preferences, their porn habits or desperately tries to trick their coworkers into surprise romantic weekends together. However, I'm clearly not exposed to the demographic that is all about that, and I'd love to know more about it. What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Do they feel they're too powerful t…

> What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way?

Your question overgeneralizes. You're attributing to the group, the qualities of a small number of individuals.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#32

Post by AnonNo15 »

dang wrote: post #25
AnonNo15 wrote: post #19

>Honestly, I might have considered dating him had he been >less arrogant and less married. Ah, I see. If you are attractive enough, suddenly it is not sexual harassment anymore. I am not going to have a shred of compassion for any woman in tech who complains about harassment, while mentioning the dating opportunities that happen to come.

> Ah, I see. If you are attractive enough, suddenly it is not sexual harassment That's not in the least a charitable version of what she said, and this is a generic talking point of the kind that always moves discussions in a less substantive, more angry direction (as indeed you moved yourself in the next paragraph). Please make a u-turn and post the opposite kind of comment here, or no comment.

No, I will not post any comment in opposite direction, and neither I will keep silent.

If society wants to remove sexual harassment from work environment , then both genders need to adjust their behavior, not just men. For women it means zero exceptions allowed for dating at work, even if the guy is attractive. Or going all in and accepting the dating and sexual advances from coworkers, however that would mean forfeiting the "sexual harassment" cliche.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#33

Post by BadassFractal »

khazhoux wrote: post #31
BadassFractal wrote: post #24

Nobody I know in the SV founder/investor scene talks openly about their sex worker preferences, their porn habits or desperately tries to trick their coworkers into surprise romantic weekends together. However, I'm clearly not exposed to the demographic that is all about that, and I'd love to know more about it. What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Do they feel they're too powerful t…

> What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Your question overgeneralizes. You're attributing to the group, the qualities of a small number of individuals.

There have been several women coming out in the past few months reporting VC partners behaving in a similar manner, hence that being a trend vs being about "just that one group of people"

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#34

Post by mador »

smokeyj wrote: post #20

This article goes all over the place. Can anyone make a good summary of what point she's trying to make? It reads like an unfiltered stream of consciousness. I think she's trying to be convincing and using her writing style to do that - but for me bullet points are more convincing. From what I read, her account is 99% about her personal experience and not he industry at large. How does this equate to "sexism in the v…

That might be because it's an excerpt from a book that's coming out.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#35

Post by khazhoux »

AnonNo15 wrote: post #19

>Honestly, I might have considered dating him had he been >less arrogant and less married. Ah, I see. If you are attractive enough, suddenly it is not sexual harassment anymore. I am not going to have a shred of compassion for any woman in tech who complains about harassment, while mentioning the dating opportunities that happen to come.

What an odd criticism to make. She's stating that his arrogance and marital status made him unattractive, as he was coming on to her. A perfectly valid way to feel, no?

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#36

Post by laksjd »

probably_wrong wrote: post #27

Interesting read. I wonder if the "paid army of trolls" she mentions followed her to Reddit. That would definitely explain the campaign against her.

This xkcd came to my mind when I read that: https://xkcd.com/1019/

It's sobering to think about how easy it must be (for a sufficiently funded organisation) to effectively determine "public discourse" on a large number of topics.

Then again, never underestimate just how willing people are (all on their own) to grab their virtual pitchforks without much consideration.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#37

Post by GoToRO »

BadassFractal wrote: post #24

Nobody I know in the SV founder/investor scene talks openly about their sex worker preferences, their porn habits or desperately tries to trick their coworkers into surprise romantic weekends together. However, I'm clearly not exposed to the demographic that is all about that, and I'd love to know more about it. What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Do they feel they're too powerful t…

I would say it's money. And a lifestyle that resembles too much with a non stop party than anything else. Just my guess.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#38

Post by 0xbear »

That was better than I thought it would be. A real, "no holds barred" account, and well written as well. I wish there were more of these, including perhaps accounts of what others have to say about Ellen herself. This really takes the patina off the whole SV venture capital scene. It's like there are different sets of rules, one for them, and the other is for the peons who work for them. A peon would be let go after the first, like, five seconds of that private jet conversation.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#39

Post by khazhoux »

AnonNo15 wrote: post #32
dang wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, I see. If you are attractive enough, suddenly it is not sexual harassment That's not in the least a charitable version of what she said, and this is a generic talking point of the kind that always moves discussions in a less substantive, more angry direction (as indeed you moved yourself in the next paragraph). Please make a u-turn and post the opposite kind of comment here, or no comment.

No, I will not post any comment in opposite direction, and neither I will keep silent. If society wants to remove sexual harassment from work environment , then both genders need to adjust their behavior, not just men. For women it means zero exceptions allowed for dating at work, even if the guy is attractive. Or going all in and accepting the dating and sexual advances from coworkers, however that would mean forfei…

You're setting up a strawman. No one is trying to prohibit dating at work. What's prohibited is retaliatory actions (or threats of retaliation) when someone is turned down.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#40

Post by khazhoux »

BadassFractal wrote: post #33
khazhoux wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Your question overgeneralizes. You're attributing to the group, the qualities of a small number of individuals.

There have been several women coming out in the past few months reporting VC partners behaving in a similar manner, hence that being a trend vs being about "just that one group of people"

> What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way?

Ok, maybe I'm just parsing words here, but your statement can be read as:

"that group of people [VCs and CEOs] behave that way [sexual harassment]"

Which overgeneralizes, because this still appears to be a small number of offenders, despite the recent outings.

That said, I'm willing to believe/accept that the same qualities that make someone think they should be CEO or a power-investor, and not a lowly peon worker, translates into a higher likelihood of douchebaggery.

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