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Explaining React's license

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Re: Explaining React's license

#381

Post by Lazare »

kavok wrote: post #209
sverhagen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your second point, wouldn't there be a tremendous amount of startups who aren't interested in being in the patents business, or that would otherwise not own the patents over which to sue Facebook, that would thus not be able to get into this position, or did I just completely misunderstand the issue?

Investors seem to be really fond of patentable or protectable technology. Lets say a start up comes up with a really clever and novel way to accurately predict what kind of a cake a person likes best. If they built a platform in React and then Facebook stole the idea - they couldn't sue Facebook (or any Facebook subsidiaries) without immediately revoking the ability to use React. This isn't only covering Facebook - t…

> If they built a platform in React and then Facebook stole the idea - they couldn't sue Facebook (or any Facebook subsidiaries) without immediately revoking the ability to use React.

Untrue. They couldn't sue Facebook (or subsidiary) without immediately losing their right to use any patents Facebook may-or-may-not have on React. Their right to use React would be untouched.

So, are there any patents? People have looked; so far none have been found. More to the point, what JS lib do you think our hypothetical firm should have used instead? Preact? Vue? Angular? Backbone? Why do you think Facebook doesn't have any patents on those?

Re: Explaining React's license

#382

Post by rogihee »

zackbrown wrote: post #208
kevinflo wrote: post #101

I love love love love love react as a technology, but this is just awful. I believe any developer not on Facebook's payroll still contributing to React or React native at this point has a moral obligation to stop. I personally feel like such a fool for not taking all this seriously before the ASF gave me a wakeup call. React is a trojan horse into the open source community that Facebook purposely and maliciously stee…

I remember sitting in the front row at ngEurope (Angular conf) back in 2014, when Misko announced that Angular 2 would be a (breaking) API rewrite vs Angular 1. At that time, Angular was perhaps at its global maximum of community mind share—bigger than React!—and its popularity began to sink afterwards in large part due to that PR snafu. I wonder if this is React's "Angular 2." What's worse, the misstep this time is…

I'm still working heavily with AngularJS (1) and in combination with components (1.5+), TypeScript and a MVVM approach it is very clean and productive. Even for all its flaws, it still very easy to start with in 10mins, include 1 lib in 1 line and "Hello World" is up and running.

Compare that to the space ship Angular 2. They really made an outstanding effort to create a huge barrier of entry for anyone not having a degree in DevOps. I'm an old fart, I don't need your stinking CLI, Grunt, Gulp, NPM etc stuff.

Compare that to Vue.js really shines in this regard with the same level of entry as AngularJS. For me that is part of what I thinks makes it a succes.

When choosing a new framework I tend to not look for the future, but look in the past. I chose what was mainstream 2-3 years ago, which means right now still AngularJS for me. This means I'm a leecher on StackOverflow, but so be it. I have my own company and clients pay me for working applications, which means I have to choose my tools as efficient and effective as possible. By choosing last years model, it is less sexy but will get me from A to B with the same speed plus added reliability. At the same time I'm keeping a close look to Vue.js and if still going in the same direction next year as it is now, I will definitely switch to it.

Re: Explaining React's license

#383

Post by [deleted] »

tribby wrote: post #256
stephen82 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I planned to learn more about React, but reading now this convinced me to learn Vue.js instead. It's under MIT license developed by a single person in addition to community's contribution. This link is rather interesting https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/comparison.html#React

you've made a great choice. forget about patents: vue is a joy to use. can't say the same about react, personally. also check out nuxt.js, a small abstraction layer on top of vue that has some opinions about file structure and also makes SSR a breeze https://nuxtjs.org/

[deleted]

Re: Explaining React's license

#384

Post by tmat »

shams93 wrote: post #295
kdamken wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finishing up a project at work with Vue right now, and I gotta say it's really excellent to work with. Way more intuitive than some other frameworks out there.

To me it has the advantage that jQuery had, the product if a single developer with a huge community behind him but no large company imposing their agenda on the framework.

React isn't even a framework.

Re: Explaining React's license

#385

Post by jondubois »

stephen82 wrote: post #157
kevinflo wrote: post #101

I love love love love love react as a technology, but this is just awful. I believe any developer not on Facebook's payroll still contributing to React or React native at this point has a moral obligation to stop. I personally feel like such a fool for not taking all this seriously before the ASF gave me a wakeup call. React is a trojan horse into the open source community that Facebook purposely and maliciously stee…

Well, I planned to learn more about React, but reading now this convinced me to learn Vue.js instead. It's under MIT license developed by a single person in addition to community's contribution. This link is rather interesting https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/comparison.html#React

Or there is Google's Polymer framework. In my opinion, Polymer is better than React and Vue. I could never bring myself to use React because of its liense terms.

Re: Explaining React's license

#386

Post by delinka »

Someone please help me understand the problems here. The repository includes two documents: 1) a proper BSD license, and 2) a patent license. While reading the latter, I see no mention of it affecting the former.

So my take on this is that it's BSD-licensed code. Period. The patent license is a "bonus" and not at all required by the BSD license, and doesn't affect the BSD license. Any other company offering BSD licensed code is free to withhold licensing their patents at all. So are we suggesting that the patent license is a bad idea? That it's revocability is a bad idea? Why does this matter when the software is licensed under a BSD license?

Re: Explaining React's license

#387

Post by tmat »

drieddust wrote: post #153
kevinflo wrote: post #101

I love love love love love react as a technology, but this is just awful. I believe any developer not on Facebook's payroll still contributing to React or React native at this point has a moral obligation to stop. I personally feel like such a fool for not taking all this seriously before the ASF gave me a wakeup call. React is a trojan horse into the open source community that Facebook purposely and maliciously stee…

Agreed and there is no reason to still stick with react when alternatives like vuejs and angular are available. Its not that great anyways when compared to angular 2/4. There are too many concepts to be mastered and it soon become overwhelming. I tried learning react but dropped it after spending a week when I still could not understand routing. Sense of cohesiveness between different concepts is missing. I believe s…

Angular is nothing like React. It's garbage in comparison.

Re: Explaining React's license

#388

Post by msoad »

rakibtg wrote: post #244

This is pathetic and breaks my heart. Expecting something good from thieves is not very practical, Facebook the company started by stealing others dream. This days if you take a look at them, they won't let grow any other app for any cost. They bought instagram, whatsapp where they already was providing such feature but due to their earlybird list. Also instead of contributing few tweaks into NPM they made a clone of…

I'm really thankful for Yarn.

npm is the buggies software I had to deal with! Also God forbids if you want to fix a bug! First the code is absolute piece of poop and when you figure all this "smart" hacks they wrote and fix it you will have a hard time getting it merged. They close prs and force their way of doing things without caring about community feedback. Take for example that stupid error output or randomly running prepublish script for example

There are so many bad architectural decisions in npm that there is no way you can fix it by a few changes.

Re: Explaining React's license

#389

Post by yoz-y »

chrisco255 wrote: post #238
hardwaresofton wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this opinion almost swayed me, but the problem is that companies aren't scared of open source writers suing them. If you use project A that was written by one or two developers in their spare time (and they included a BSD+patents) clause, would Facebook fear being sued by them? Probably not -- but new companies that get anywhere close to what Facebook does (increasingly, that's everything these days) definitely li…

The clause states you only lose the patent rights if YOU sue Facebook for patent infringement (and only for patent infringement, not other reasons). As pointed out by Dennis Walsh in ( https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revok... ), it would take millions to bring a patent suit against Facebook.

This is something I have yet to understand. From all I read about the patent situation in America it looks like they are totally worthless unless you are a multi million company. Is there actually no way of pursuing a giant if they infringe on your IP?

Re: Explaining React's license

#390

Post by tmat »

chrisco255 wrote: post #287
geocar wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also less capable and completely incompatible with router 3.

I hadn't heard that it was less capable. But you can always keep using v3 if that's what you know. He seemed to indicate that it took him a week to figure out routing in React. I have never had that much trouble.

Same here, This all seems like a "My JS Lib is better than your JS Lib" fight. So let me say this, React is by far and away the best JS view library out there. I don't need MVC in my fucking view(Hey Ember), and I don't need a entire framework for my view(Hey Angular)..

ReactJS 4tw.

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