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Explaining React's license

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Re: Explaining React's license

#241

Post by slavik81 »

robocat wrote: post #210
quickben wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's deeper than that. Say you are a company A, and have product P that uses react. You find out that company B infringed on a patent in your other product Q. You sue B. It turns out B is owned by FB. Your product P is in trouble.

"If you are OK with using MIT or BSD licensed software you should be OK with using Facebook's BSD + Patents software." (From GP) I.e. patent grant nullifies, and you are left with a BSD only license.

The main BSD license file says plainly that Facebook grants you the right to use the software. Nowhere does it say that it is merely a grant of copyrights. While the Facebook Additional Grant of Patent Rights purports to be purely additive, its mere existence changes how I would interpret the scope of that main license file. As such, I find the meaning and implications of Facebook's contract to be unclear. I would not want to depend on it, personally.

The feeling is a bit like stepping into a restaurant that offers lead-free burgers for only $0.99 extra. Theoretically, declining the upcharge is no different than eating anywhere else. Yet...

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

Re: Explaining React's license

#242

Post by chrisco255 »

rsgrafx wrote: post #231

What advice would you say to someone who just who's only about 6 months in ( learning React ) ? A. Its not been that long.. walk away and learn something else. B. If you've put in the time try to get something out of it. C. I don't know what the whole fuss is about your not going to be building anything worth facebook's time anyway.

If this is for your own personal projects or your startup...you should just keep using React. Seriously, unless you've got millions of dollars to bring a patent suit against Facebook (do you even have any patents to defend?), this should not even be on your radar. You should be focused on building great product and execution: not patent litigation.

Re: Explaining React's license

#243

Post by chrisco255 »

antoncohen wrote: post #158
mcbits wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read it, and I'm pretty sure it says that if you initiate a patent lawsuit against Facebook, you lose the license to use React at all. It doesn't revert to BSD. (EDIT: Apparently that's wrong although the license could certainly be more clear about it.) If React doesn't implement any of their patents, the patent clause offers nothing extra. If it does, it would be damned nice to know which one(s) . Do other libr…

No, you lose the patent license, not the copyright license. From Facebook's blog post: > The patent grant says that if you're going to use the software we've released under it, you lose the patent license from us if you sue us for patent infringement. https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-r...

Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product?

No.

Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement?

No.

Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook sues me for patent infringement first, and then I respond with a patent counterclaim against Facebook?

No, unless your patent counterclaim is related to Facebook's software licensed under the Facebook BSD+Patents license.

Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate?

No.

From: https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556

Re: Explaining React's license

#244

Post by rakibtg »

This is pathetic and breaks my heart. Expecting something good from thieves is not very practical, Facebook the company started by stealing others dream. This days if you take a look at them, they won't let grow any other app for any cost. They bought instagram, whatsapp where they already was providing such feature but due to their earlybird list.

Also instead of contributing few tweaks into NPM they made a clone of NPM called Yarn, so funny.

Instead of contributing changes to PHP they made a clone of PHP called HackLang, i am laughing laughter :D

Facebook is a proven bad actor for all open source projects, and its time to be aware. One possible solution is to ban facebook from using any open source projects with a new license.

One day we will going to have F-Git (a copied version of git with some tweaks by facebook)

Snapchat denied to become a part of their monopoly cycle, they made a 100% clone of the product in facebooks every fucking platform. As a software engineer i found it very illegal and unethical, every maker should have good ethics, thats why facebook was unable to invent anything other than Poke feature on facebook itself.

Shame

If i were working at facebook i would definitely switch the company to better one, who won't force me to copy others.

However, i am upset, because the technology that i loved most was just a typical facebook product comes with hidden payloads. I would definitely stay 100% away from all facebook products. It also gives us a free lesson how a evil a tech company could be.

Alternatives: My personal list of alternatives are,

React = Vue JS

React Native = Native Script

All i can do is this: https://twitter.com/rakibtg/status/892784442476904449

Re: Explaining React's license

#245

Post by chrisco255 »

DannyBee wrote: post #174
antoncohen wrote: post #129

Facebook's license is no more dangerous than regular MIT or BSD-style licenses. If you are OK with using MIT or BSD licensed software you should be OK with using Facebook's BSD + Patents software. Here is why: MIT and BSD licenses don't have any patent grants, unlike the Apache 2.0 license. If you use MIT/BSD open source software, and some functionality of that software is patented by the author, you could be sued fo…

"MIT and BSD licenses don't have any patent grants, unlike the Apache 2.0 license. If you use MIT/BSD open source software, and some functionality of that software is patented by the author, you could be sued for patent infringement. " Every single lawyer i've ever spoken to strongly believes implied licenses will protect you very well here. Like, among us open source lawyers, it's pretty much the one thing people ag…

The problem is that your MIT licensed open source library is not guaranteed to not be in violation of any software patents that may exist in the wild. If Company A publishes an open source library that happens to violate Company B's patents...then Company A's MIT license is not going to protect you against Company B's patent.

Re: Explaining React's license

#246

Post by krowel »

rakibtg wrote: post #244

This is pathetic and breaks my heart. Expecting something good from thieves is not very practical, Facebook the company started by stealing others dream. This days if you take a look at them, they won't let grow any other app for any cost. They bought instagram, whatsapp where they already was providing such feature but due to their earlybird list. Also instead of contributing few tweaks into NPM they made a clone of…

R.I.P

Re: Explaining React's license

#247

Post by chrisco255 »

slackoverflower wrote: post #62

Of course they release this late on a Friday so it is does not get much reach. Facebook is very very evil - in every part of the company. Copying other's ideas (Snapchat) yet trying to stop other companies from copying them (this licensing).

They're not stopping anyone from copying them. In fact, they're saying please, use our code and use our patents...just don't sue us! How hard is that to understand?

Re: Explaining React's license

#248

Post by buleklproof »

krowel wrote: post #246
rakibtg wrote: post #244

This is pathetic and breaks my heart. Expecting something good from thieves is not very practical, Facebook the company started by stealing others dream. This days if you take a look at them, they won't let grow any other app for any cost. They bought instagram, whatsapp where they already was providing such feature but due to their earlybird list. Also instead of contributing few tweaks into NPM they made a clone of…

R.I.P

RIP Facebook

Re: Explaining React's license

#249

Post by chrisco255 »

amluto wrote: post #108
jaredklewis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would patiently beg everyone to employ some basic reasoning. Situation A: React is licensed under BSD + PATENTS. You sue Facebook for infringing your widget patent. Turns out Facebook has a patent for something in react. They revoke your grant and counter sue you for infringing that patent. Long legal battle ensues. Situation A: React is licensed under just BSD. You sue Facebook for infringing your widget patent. T…

There's a school of thought that the BSD permission to "use" the software implies a patent grant. As an extension of this school of thought, React's PATENTS file could be seen at modifying that grant.

Has this never been tested in court in all the years the BSD license has been around (since 1988)?

Re: Explaining React's license

#250

Post by chrisco255 »

kavok wrote: post #213
Lazare wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using React just opens you up to liability, with no real benefit (other than using React). How? Again, if they have a patent, they can sue you if you use one of the alternatives mentioned. If they don't have a patent, they can't sue you if you use React. What's your thinking behind saying using React adds liability? Because to me, it looks like either it does nothing or it reduces liability.

The fact that we even have to have this discussion is a reason not to use it. I'd have to a hire a lawyer and disclose it to my investors to be cleared up. It would cost us money to validate because it does something different compared to any other similar project. My investors were very specific about software licenses - we aren't allowed to use GPLv4 or AGPL at all.

If that's your concern, then you should comb through the source code of all your open source libraries and be certain that none of it violates any of Facebook's patents, including the MIT licensed stuff, which may very well.
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