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John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

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Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#211

Post by nnd »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #34

Being rich is having a car. Even a scooter. Being rich is being able to visit your family. Being rich is having insurance. Being rich is paying for a monthly phone subscription. Being rich is hot lunches. Being rich is risking losing your job in order to negotiate a better contract with your boss. Being rich is considering having children at all. Being rich is buying alcohol. Being rich is looking at house prices. Be…

>> Being rich is considering having children at all.

There is a negative correlation between financial wealth and birth rate worldwide.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#212

Post by delazeur »

Grustaf wrote: post #148
arethuza wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"clerical error lost paid ticket" Sounds like they paid their fine and then got caught in the system as the result of a clerical error?

Yes, and that is unfortunate, but it was preceded, and followed, by breaking the law.

Shit, do you really think that people who get speeding tickets deserve jail time? You understand that the punishment should be proportional to the crime, right?

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#213

Post by shamsalmon »

Grustaf wrote: post #128
jachee wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed trap as fund-raiser > clerical error lost paid ticket > license suspended > road block as fund-raiser > zero-tolerance "suspended license == go to jail" > impounded car, $1200 bond, and jail time "waiting on the judge to post bond."

Speeding is always illegal, and not just for poor people. So is driving without a license. Do you believe those laws are unjust and/or targeting poor people?

When the fine isn't based on your income it does unfairly target poor people.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#214

Post by SolaceQuantum »

gehsty wrote: post #142

I read this and feel lucky. I want to help people who feel this way but do not want to make them feel like they owe anything in return, or that they are different because they need help. I don't know how to do this. I give money to charities but sometimes that feels very classist, some times I feel like I do it to make me feel better, rather than actually help people. I give food to foodbanks but I don't give enough.…

Find a local charity you can and give money to them. It will be more helpful and your dollars will go directly to benefit the people around you.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#215

Post by Grustaf »

delazeur wrote: post #212
Grustaf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that is unfortunate, but it was preceded, and followed, by breaking the law.

Shit, do you really think that people who get speeding tickets deserve jail time? You understand that the punishment should be proportional to the crime, right?

Where did you get that from?

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#216

Post by micheljones »

archagon wrote: post #204
emodendroket wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to minimize racial discrimination, but telling poor people about their white privilege seems not all that different from conservative finger-wagging about how American poverty isn't "real" poverty. Also, even if you only looked at white people American police shootings are at a much higher rate than comparable countries.

Privilege is not a moral judgement. It is a sociological concept. Without the word “privilege”, a different word, or a longer phrase, will have to be used. Ultimately, the concept of privilege is a tool for good, intended to help bring people up. Republican finger-wagging, on the other hand, is used to maintain the status quo.

'Racial superiority' is also a 'sociological concept'. I hope you'll start to see the issue there.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#217

Post by Grustaf »

jachee wrote: post #208
arethuza wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "unfortunate" it's an example of how a clerical error that would be an inconvenience somewhere where public transport is good or if you have enough money to pay for taxis becomes nearly catastrophic if you are poor. He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that.

> He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that. Exactly. It's not like I even made a choice to drive with a suspended license. This was nearly 20 years ago now, and it happened in a tiny no-red-light town with no computer system. The ticket was for 61 in a 55 on a downhill grade. The dead-tree paperwork that confirmed that I had paid got lost, they had the wrong address on file, and I never found o…

Sorry, it wasn't clear to me that you were not aware of the suspended license.

I still think that you can't complain about getting the initial fine, regardless of the size of the town where you broke the law. I also don't see how this is really connected with being poor.

If you're arguing that many speed limits are set to low I'm totally with you, but that's a separate question.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#218

Post by archagon »

micheljones wrote: post #216
archagon wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privilege is not a moral judgement. It is a sociological concept. Without the word “privilege”, a different word, or a longer phrase, will have to be used. Ultimately, the concept of privilege is a tool for good, intended to help bring people up. Republican finger-wagging, on the other hand, is used to maintain the status quo.

'Racial superiority' is also a 'sociological concept'. I hope you'll start to see the issue there.

Er, not at all? Racial superiority is not a concept in any reputable subfield of sociology. Privilege is not someone’s misguided opinion, but a concept founded on years of research.

I am disturbed by this false equivalence.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#219

Post by fsociety »

micheljones wrote: post #184
catawbasam wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You overestimate the power of white privilege. It is real, but not as pervasive as you make it out to be. I do remember the last time I was pulled over for nothing. I do remember being afraid of the police. I do remember not being let off with a warning. Looking like a scruffy redneck will get you that treatment in some rich suburbs. The big advantage of being white is that it is much easier to camouflage yourself as…

It is pointless to engage racists in a reasonable discussion.

That's the sad part, that the discussion is shut down with repeatable phrases. Additionally many of the people who repeat these phrases grew up in a life of privilege.

Even worse, I think if they travelled the world a bit they'd see that racism against white people does exist and that they are perpetuating it in their own way.

On the other hand the world could do a bit better with equal opportunity and the income gap, but that has very little to do with just being white.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#220

Post by babesh »

maxerickson wrote: post #191
dsr_ wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all schools say that. The result is that, before you are old enough to vote or drink, you are encouraged to take on a debt larger than the total amount of money your parents have ever made in five years, a debt which is not subject to bankruptcy laws. If you make it out the other side of college with a bachelor's degree in a STEM field and an average job, it will still take you 21 years to pay it off. https://…

Private schools with huge endowments actually do cover tuition for people with lower incomes. For example, Princeton covers 100% of tuition and room & board for family income below $65,000: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-... MIT doesn't lay the income levels out so clearly but has a similar program: http://sfs.mit.edu/undergraduate-financial-aid/types-of-aid/... Public schools with huge e…

They started doing that relatively recently. Back then, it was a small grant, a job, and a large loan. Software didn't start outpacing other engineering professions' pay till the web boom. That was hindsight since I had the faintest clue what a major was.

Choosing a major that results in a job versus one based on interests.

Another decision was not to go to graduate school right afterwards. Poignant memory was of a professor asking if I was going to graduate school after I did well in a graduate school level course and saying no.

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