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John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

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Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#191

Post by maxerickson »

dsr_ wrote: post #174
WalterBright wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the MIT thing. In the 70's, when I applied around, MIT and other top schools made it clear that if you were qualified to go there and accepted, they'd find a way to get the bill paid with some combination of scholarships, loans, and work.

Nearly all schools say that. The result is that, before you are old enough to vote or drink, you are encouraged to take on a debt larger than the total amount of money your parents have ever made in five years, a debt which is not subject to bankruptcy laws. If you make it out the other side of college with a bachelor's degree in a STEM field and an average job, it will still take you 21 years to pay it off. https://…

Private schools with huge endowments actually do cover tuition for people with lower incomes. For example, Princeton covers 100% of tuition and room & board for family income below $65,000:

https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-...

MIT doesn't lay the income levels out so clearly but has a similar program:

http://sfs.mit.edu/undergraduate-financial-aid/types-of-aid/...

Public schools with huge endowments are getting in on the game:

https://record.umich.edu/articles/u-m-unveils-tuition-guaran...

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#192

Post by micahbright »

fweespeech wrote: post #99
micahbright wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you turn a voluntary charitable contribution into forcing other people to pay. If you aren't poor, you should already be making contributions to the poor since you have such high moral standards.

We are all in this world together and some of us do make those contributions. You are just angry we want you to contribute at all and I feel bad for you. It must hurt going through life thinking no one cares if you suffer or die.

I'm angry you want to force me to contribute - you douche. I've been contributing to the poor my whole life

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#193

Post by micahbright »

boyce wrote: post #157
micahbright wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you turn a voluntary charitable contribution into forcing other people to pay. If you aren't poor, you should already be making contributions to the poor since you have such high moral standards.

Yeah exactly. The not-poor should already be making contributions to the poor. Maybe we should have an elected body to manage the collection and distribution of these contributions. We could make it income related so those who can are able to contribute more. It could be universal so there's already a safety net there if people lose their jobs or become ill without paperwork or delays, also so that no one is poorer f…

Go fuck yourself

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#194

Post by micahbright »

Applejinx wrote: post #182
micahbright wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you turn a voluntary charitable contribution into forcing other people to pay. If you aren't poor, you should already be making contributions to the poor since you have such high moral standards.

That would be the most efficient mechanism for ensuring the money is re-spent, locally, supporting local small businesses and entrepreneurs. Starving people really never have Swiss bank accounts, and rarely outsource. Whatever your morals, and whatever the morals of 'the poor' as you see them, there is a pragmatic argument here that is absolutely worth forcing people to pay, much like you're forced to pay taxes: you'…

Go fuck yourself

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#195

Post by merpnderp »

inostia wrote: post #18
merpnderp wrote: post #9

Being poor must in part be not knowing how not to be poor or having felonies or depression holding you back. I failed out of college and barely scraped one month of rent for an apartment. I got a shit job working the dock in a light bulb warehouse. I made friends with the truck driver who picked up orders who told me about an opening on their better paying dock. After half a year my hard work caught the eye of HR who…

I applaud you for your success. I can relate, having found success in a career for which I am self-trained. However, I don't use my personal anecdote to generalize that others should have the same abilities to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and just _not be poor_. Knowledge isn't enough, economical and educational opportunities are not distributed equally. This is an issue of conditions that precedes an ind…

It isn't rocket science to be middle class in America. Over my 2.5 years as a truck driver, every single person working the dock with a clean driving record and no recent felonies was put through the in house driving school, instantly becoming middle class with decent benefits. The only trick is finding a field where there isn't a massive oversupply of available help. Everyone would prefer serving coffee over roofing a house, but only one of those jobs leads to running a crew in a few months of hard, timely work.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#197

Post by piker »

dsr_ wrote: post #174
WalterBright wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the MIT thing. In the 70's, when I applied around, MIT and other top schools made it clear that if you were qualified to go there and accepted, they'd find a way to get the bill paid with some combination of scholarships, loans, and work.

Nearly all schools say that. The result is that, before you are old enough to vote or drink, you are encouraged to take on a debt larger than the total amount of money your parents have ever made in five years, a debt which is not subject to bankruptcy laws. If you make it out the other side of college with a bachelor's degree in a STEM field and an average job, it will still take you 21 years to pay it off. https://…

> a debt which is not subject to bankruptcy laws

...and is completely forgiven if you die, make 25 years worth of payments (10 if you're in public interest), are permanently disabled; is only required to be repaid to the extent you have discretionary income and haven't asked to put in forbearance; and is at an extremely low, tax-deductible interest rate, not secured by any assets.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#198

Post by urbanj »

micheljones wrote: post #184
catawbasam wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You overestimate the power of white privilege. It is real, but not as pervasive as you make it out to be. I do remember the last time I was pulled over for nothing. I do remember being afraid of the police. I do remember not being let off with a warning. Looking like a scruffy redneck will get you that treatment in some rich suburbs. The big advantage of being white is that it is much easier to camouflage yourself as…

It is pointless to engage racists in a reasonable discussion.

Fuck off back to writing shit PHP code you MRA racist cunt

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#199

Post by namlem »

philovivero wrote: post #96
jachee wrote: post #23

I lived this. Being poor is growing up between the trailer park and the dump. Being poor is skipping homework to help repair the $600 car so dad can make it to work tomorrow. Being poor is your mother crying over a $100 invoice for the dental service you just received for the first time in living memory. Being poor is quitting junior college early, because your Pell Grant ran out, and a $12.15/hr opportunity is over…

Thank you for the inventory of my life. I remember those months as a kid when the cupboards were bare, and so I'd just shrug and go to bed without dinner. Thank goodness for government-sponsored low-income lunch program. That was my only meal many days. Naturally I was surprised when recently I got informed I have white privilege by a bunch of spoiled children who've never known a day of hardship in their lives. I'm…

White privilege and class privilege often get conflate in this country. I guess in part because our society has historically been very divided by race and in part because Americans are uncomfortable with the idea of class.

If you're white, you have white privilege, but you don't necessarily have class privilege. Class privilege isn't just about money either. If you grow up without much money, but to highly cultured and educated parents, you still have some class privilege.

Re: John Scalzi: Being Poor (2005)

#200

Post by Traubenfuchs »

Being dumb is when you are poor and still breed like the animal you are, since a lot of these are about being a poor child or having a child while being poor.

I don't say poor people don't deserve to have children. I am merely saying that children don't deserve to have poor parents so stop making them unless you can afford them a dignified life.

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