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A big, successful trial of probiotics

theatlantic.com

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Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#41

Post by blurbleblurble »

Ovah wrote: post #26

I find the word probiotic to be inherently problematic. It includes any and all microorganisms that have a single positive health benefit, whether or not they're detrimental in other regards. That if a bacteria were to penerate gut epithelium (very bad), it would still be a probiotic if it reduced constupation. Even if the research supporting the health benefits of a supplemental bacteria is sound, a single study alw…

In my opinion, the word antibiotic is even more problematic.

In a recent survey, 13% of practitioners admitted to having used sedatives or antibiotics as placebos:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081023195216.h...

To me, antibiotics are an example of dangerous superstition rearing its nasty head right there smack in the middle an institution that prides itself as rational and superior.

I think pre-med and med school students should be required to take courses in chaos theory and ecology, as well as open minded primers on alternative and preventative medicines, not so much to advocate or practice them, but so they can have a better sense of medicine as an artform.

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#42

Post by rednerrus »

throwawy81717 wrote: post #35
manmal wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on what you need. I would be careful around soil based species, and avoid D-lactic acid producers (which eliminates a whole lot of probiotics), but apart from that you can just get what you need. E.g. if you have a problem with histamine intolerance you could go for strains that eat/reduce histamine. If you want better mood, you could try L Plantarum 299v or Bifidobacterium Longum or L casei shirota…

If you want to lose weight, Christensenella minuta is worth examining. The research[1,2] is preliminary, and I wouldn't trust any commercial preparations without validation, but it is compelling. 1. http://www.ctl.cornell.edu/events/celebration15/posters/Wate... 2. http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(14)01241-0

Is there somewhere this is commercially available?

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#43

Post by tatersolid »

skore wrote: post #24
polskibus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there any though? From the article, it seems that they had to cultivate the colonies themselves.

VSL#3 has them (amongst others). Not sure whether it's the "ATCC strain 202195", though. https://vsl3.com/about-vsl/ Streptococcus thermophilus Bifidobacterium breve Bifidobacterium longum Bifidobacterium infantis Lactobacillus acidophilus Lactobacillus plantarum Lactobacillus paracasei Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus

Having had two major surgeries due to "unkillable" intestinal infection, I can advocate for the efficacy of VSL#3. My GI actually prescribed me a high-dose version post-op, and two years later i can say it has been life-changing. Other common "store shelf" probiotics are not the same for whatever reason (supply-chain refrigeration and cost might explain that somewhat).

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#44

Post by dpatrick86 »

avip wrote: post #12
rubidium wrote: post #3

Here's the nature article (paywall): http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/natu... "The special mixture included a probiotic called Lactobacillus plantarum ATCC-202195 combined with fructo-oligosaccharide (FOS), an oral synbiotic preparation developed by Dr. Panigrahi." (from https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-probiotics-sepsis-inf... ) Decrease in other infections (respiratory and nasal) is par…

Problem solved http://sci-hub.io/10.1038/nature23480 Spasiba Russia.

Kazakhstan. :)

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#45

Post by dpatrick86 »

skore wrote: post #24
polskibus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there any though? From the article, it seems that they had to cultivate the colonies themselves.

VSL#3 has them (amongst others). Not sure whether it's the "ATCC strain 202195", though. https://vsl3.com/about-vsl/ Streptococcus thermophilus Bifidobacterium breve Bifidobacterium longum Bifidobacterium infantis Lactobacillus acidophilus Lactobacillus plantarum Lactobacillus paracasei Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus

My understanding is that Visbiome is also thought to be a comparable product that has the same formulation.

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#46

Post by Mz »

Aside from preventing sepsis, it also reduced the risk of infections by both the major groups of bacteria: the Gram-positives, by 82 percent; and the Gram-negatives, which are harder to treat with antibiotics, by 75 percent. It even reduced the risk of pneumonia and other infections of the airways by 34 percent. That was “completely unexpected,” says Panigrahi, and it’s the result he’s especially excited about. It suggests that the synbiotic isn’t just acting within the gut, but also giving the infants’ immune systems a body-wide boost.

I don't know why they are so surprised. Given that some sources say the gut constitutes up to 70 percent of the immune system, it should be fairly obvious that improving gut health will have such effects.

Furthermore, you can infer a fairly direct relationship between gut health and lung health based on what happens in the body at altitude: You start urinating more to compensate for the thin air reducing your ability to exhale wastes. The body starts clearing them out of the blood by shunting them to the kidneys.

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#48

Post by azinman2 »

Mz wrote: post #46

Aside from preventing sepsis, it also reduced the risk of infections by both the major groups of bacteria: the Gram-positives, by 82 percent; and the Gram-negatives, which are harder to treat with antibiotics, by 75 percent. It even reduced the risk of pneumonia and other infections of the airways by 34 percent. That was “completely unexpected,” says Panigrahi, and it’s the result he’s especially excited about. It su…

But a single strain of bacteria can do that? I would say that’s pretty surprising and if so a major discovery. I don’t currently have any such magic pills that I’m taking...

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#49

Post by [deleted] »

azinman2 wrote: post #48
Mz wrote: post #46

Aside from preventing sepsis, it also reduced the risk of infections by both the major groups of bacteria: the Gram-positives, by 82 percent; and the Gram-negatives, which are harder to treat with antibiotics, by 75 percent. It even reduced the risk of pneumonia and other infections of the airways by 34 percent. That was “completely unexpected,” says Panigrahi, and it’s the result he’s especially excited about. It su…

But a single strain of bacteria can do that? I would say that’s pretty surprising and if so a major discovery. I don’t currently have any such magic pills that I’m taking...

[deleted]

Re: A big, successful trial of probiotics

#50

Post by geomark »

hanklazard wrote: post #25
rubidium wrote: post #3

Here's the nature article (paywall): http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/natu... "The special mixture included a probiotic called Lactobacillus plantarum ATCC-202195 combined with fructo-oligosaccharide (FOS), an oral synbiotic preparation developed by Dr. Panigrahi." (from https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-probiotics-sepsis-inf... ) Decrease in other infections (respiratory and nasal) is par…

Pediatric MD PhD. These are exciting results. Sepsis among neonates is a major concern, even in the developed world. Babies new to the world have very weak immune systems, particularly with regard to antibody response which is initially almost entirely composed of waning amounts of transplacental IgA. This paper points out the the developing world has even higher rates of infant mortality from bacterial sepsis. So th…

Outstanding comment. Thank you.
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