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Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

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Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#151

Post by jononor »

joosters wrote: post #102
jessaustin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2004 was a long time ago. Can we just assume for the sake of discussion that the state of the art in electronic devices was different then?

We're talking about a small piece of circuitry that detects a current. This was possible in 2004, it was hardly the dark age of electronics back then. Besides, the more complex part of the sawstop, at least to my eyes, is the part where you have to stop a big metal blade from spinning very fast ASAP. Just putting some brake pads on it like a bicycle wheel is not going to be good enough.

Any electric motor can be ran as a generator, which can be used to do electronic braking. It is the foundation for regenerative braking on electric cars and often used on big trailer trucks as the primary braking system.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#152

Post by quasse »

rthomas6 wrote: post #108
aligibbs wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"CPSC commissioners in favor of the rule point out that the $200 price difference is dwarfed by the financial cost, and pain and harm caused by 30,000 ER visits and more than 4,000 amputations every year. CPSC's analysis puts the annual cost of table saw accidents at around $4 billion." Yet it would be cheaper overall.

Negative externalities? What's that?

One level of critical thought too far, apparently.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#153

Post by analog31 »

rsync wrote: post #118
analog31 wrote: post #16

I own and use a tablesaw for home maintenance, and occasionally building utilitarian furniture, loudspeaker boxes (musician here), etc. My saw is an ancient Sears Roebuck that a buddy found at a garage sale. I'm aware of the SawStop technology, but haven't felt motivated to buy a brand new saw. The deal for me is simply that I don't have enough use for a saw, to justify buying a new one. I wouldn't recommend this app…

"My hands never go anywhere near the blade." Isn't that what we all do, at all times ? Who is putting their hands/fingers near the sawblade ? It's actually quite simple to avoid if you have fences/blocks/SacrificalPieces ...

Folks get their fingers cut off, so their hands are going near the blade, though I don't know the exact circumstances. They may be trying to manipulate small pieces, or in too much of a hurry to take the right precautions.

Maybe there are cases where their hands get pulled in, but I can't think of how. Honestly I wouldn't recommend using a table saw at all to most people I know.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#154

Post by dpcx »

proactivesvcs wrote: post #123
dpcx wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of, but not really. The reason you wear a seatbelt (for the most part) is because of things that are outside of your control: other drivers. In the case of woodworking, there are no other woodworkers that are going to do something stupid. And yes, I know that you also wear a seatbelt to remove potential injury from only you driving (think if you lose control, etc). You do the same in woodworking; you use clamps…

The article lists someone at the safety hearing who's amputations were the result of something out of his control. Your statements against the seatbelt analogy would suggest that we should all be using this safety mechanism because, for the most part, there are things outside of our control that can seriously injure.

Sure. There will always be things out of our control in woodworking. Just like seatbelts won't save you in all circumstances. And there are still some people that drive without wearing seatbelts. It really comes down to personal preference (even though driving without a seatbelt on is illegal in many states and countries).

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#155

Post by Freak_NL »

Asooka wrote: post #144
luckydude wrote: post #95

My wife, when we were dating, bought me a Unisaw, one of the so-called dangerous saws. (She's also the woman who would say "I'm going out to get some milk, do you need more clamps? Woodworker joke, sorry :) I have no intention of getting a sawstop saw. Why? Because my shop is full of dangerous tools. My 1930's drillpress ripped some of my hair out, my 1940's metal lathe can take your arm off, my bandsaw is way more d…

Can't you just wear heavy gloves?

While gloves are useful in some cases (e.g., moving splintery and damaged lumber), with woodworking they actually significantly increase the risk of injury. You need the finesse and control of your hands when handling materials and tools, because gloves have a tendency to get caught in rotating machinery (e.g., drill press) and the decreased accuracy means you will be making mistakes in your movements.

For this reason manufacturers tend to warn against the use of gloves in the user manual (while strongly recommending goggles, respirator, and ear protection).

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#156

Post by asteli »

Asooka wrote: post #144
luckydude wrote: post #95

My wife, when we were dating, bought me a Unisaw, one of the so-called dangerous saws. (She's also the woman who would say "I'm going out to get some milk, do you need more clamps? Woodworker joke, sorry :) I have no intention of getting a sawstop saw. Why? Because my shop is full of dangerous tools. My 1930's drillpress ripped some of my hair out, my 1940's metal lathe can take your arm off, my bandsaw is way more d…

Can't you just wear heavy gloves?

not sure if this is meant facetiously, but one tenet of shop safety is that you don't wear gloves when using tools that could snag and wrap your hand around them. drill presses, grinders, table saws.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#157

Post by yazan94 »

"CPSC Acting Chairman Ann Marie Buerkle said she was also concerned that the rule might force companies to license technology from SawStop, which she said might create a monopoly."

I think this is a valid sentiment. Why should the federal government literally award a monopoly to one company? This is not consumer protection. People know what they are getting into when dealing with a saw. This is government overreach. If people want the safety, and if a $400 stopsaw is has equivalent functionality (excluding sensing tech) as a $200 normal saw, than the increased demand will prove that the extra $200 is necessary.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#158

Post by analog31 »

dpcx wrote: post #154
proactivesvcs wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article lists someone at the safety hearing who's amputations were the result of something out of his control. Your statements against the seatbelt analogy would suggest that we should all be using this safety mechanism because, for the most part, there are things outside of our control that can seriously injure.

Sure. There will always be things out of our control in woodworking. Just like seatbelts won't save you in all circumstances. And there are still some people that drive without wearing seatbelts. It really comes down to personal preference (even though driving without a seatbelt on is illegal in many states and countries).

Indeed, and there are cases where I want to be protected from my own inattention, when the stakes are high enough.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#159

Post by octothorp3 »

abakker wrote: post #100
luckydude wrote: post #95

My wife, when we were dating, bought me a Unisaw, one of the so-called dangerous saws. (She's also the woman who would say "I'm going out to get some milk, do you need more clamps? Woodworker joke, sorry :) I have no intention of getting a sawstop saw. Why? Because my shop is full of dangerous tools. My 1930's drillpress ripped some of my hair out, my 1940's metal lathe can take your arm off, my bandsaw is way more d…

Yeah, I'm with you to some extent. My mills, lathes, etc. are all very dangerous when treated wrong (Anything with a reasonable amount of horsepower is). Routers still freak me out since there is virtually no chance of reattaching things hit with a router. "A fine spray on the wall" is about all that's left. However, I'll also say that de-risking tools is a good idea. If you want to avoid complacency, then avoid it.…

Aside from safety, what do you see as nicer about the sawstop? I love my Powermatic 66, they can pry it from my cold, dead hands :)

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#160

Post by abakker »

asteli wrote: post #156
Asooka wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just wear heavy gloves?

not sure if this is meant facetiously, but one tenet of shop safety is that you don't wear gloves when using tools that could snag and wrap your hand around them. drill presses, grinders, table saws.

yep. Effectively no woodworking tools can be safely used with gloves. Gloves are fine for material handling, but not operating tools.

Don't google image search for "power tool glove accident"

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