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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#191

Post by monocasa »

shaklee3 wrote: post #176
bitL wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TPU-like chips; though they can be (partially) included on GPUs as well as is the case with the latest NVidia/AMD GPUs.

There's nothing special about the tpu. The latest gpus are adding identical hardware to the tpu, and the name "GPU" is a misnomer now since those cards are not even intended for graphics (no monitor out). Gpus will be around for a very long time, just not doing graphics.

Yep. Simply the core idea of attacking memory latency with massive parrelization of in flight operations rather than large caches makes sense for a lot of different workloads, and that probably isn't going to change.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#192

Post by jshap70 »

bhouston wrote: post #186
majidazimi wrote: post #151

Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...

VSCode isn't similarly slow. Weird.

microsoft put in a lot of work into how vscode buffers the html its displaying for the file, and it runs very well because of it. It is actually a very cool setup; if you get a chance do an element inspection of the monaco in-browser editor, as it uses the same method. the same can not be said for atom, however.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#193

Post by iainmerrick »

a012 wrote: post #55
iainmerrick wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth are people doing on spreadsheets that needs GPU acceleration??

You never worked with accounting I guess. They easily get a single spreadsheet that's over 1GB, and that's normal.

I'm aware of big spreadsheets, but from what I've seen, it tends to be complex and very ad-hoc calculations that (I imagine) don't lend themselves very well to GPUs.

Making very complex tasks run well on a GPU is hard, whereas CPUs are great for dealing with that stuff.

If you have something like a 100,000 row spreadsheet where every row is doing exactly the same calculation on different input data, sure, that starts to make sense. If people are really doing that in Excel, I'm surprised! (but maybe I shouldn't be)

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#194

Post by Narishma »

turblety wrote: post #154
jsudhams wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it does affect only Desktop workload right? Because on servers as long as we use virtuals we should be good. Am i right?

No. Basically the Intel ME is a completely separate ARM processor that's physically stuck onto each Intel Processor. It has direct access to everything the Intel chip does. The memory it's allocating, the hardware commands (ie keyboard, mouse, display), the software running, the processes running. This all happens at a higher level than the actual Intel processor and you have no control over it at all. Basically what…

It's not an ARM processor in the case of Intel.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#195

Post by iainmerrick »

jrockway wrote: post #61
iainmerrick wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth are people doing on spreadsheets that needs GPU acceleration??

People use spreadsheets for anything that you'd use a "normal" programming language for. When I worked at a bank, a real-time trading system was implemented as an Excel spreadsheet. There were third-party and internally-developed libraries to do the complicated stuff (multicast network protocols, complicated calculations that needed to be the same across all implementations, etc.) but the bulk of the business logic a…

Right, but most things you do in a "normal" programming language don't run on a GPU either.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#196

Post by sspiff »

turblety wrote: post #105
sspiff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this should be discussed in this thread. Also, I don't know of any alternative that doesn't have large unauditable blobs integrated into the chip. All ARM SoCs come with radio processors that are running a non-trivial piece of software with full access to the system memory, which is responsible for power management, boot sequence and wireless communications. It is by definition network connected. AMD has…

Why should a serious backdoor, privacy concerns and ethical problems with a monopolies new product not be discussed in a thread about that product? Not sure I get your point on that. But yeah you are totally right on the alternatives. Nothing quite matches Intel and AMD, and a lot of those ARM SoC's have proprietary code running on their bootloader too. But you can get some processor from 7 years ago that are usable.…

I meant that as in, there have been plenty of dedicated discussions threads on this site and many others regarding the Intel ME. Most people here know about the ME by now, and we don't have to bring it up in every single Intel-related thread.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#197

Post by ngneer »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

Are you certain that the advice you are giving is suited to the security and privacy objectives of the masses?

Also, the management engine is more about the chipset than about the core, which is what the announcement is about.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#198

Post by bhouston »

zanny wrote: post #39
bhouston wrote: post #31

What will be the clock when single threaded? Can we get above 5GHz finally?

We have been over 5ghz for a decade, it just takes ln2 to do it. We aren't going to see ludicrously high clock rates for the foreseeable future. There are a lot of compounding factors as to why, but the biggest ones are the pressure for efficiency driving designs that aren't dumping higher and higher voltage to get frequency, the diminishing returns on voltage vs frequency (see Ryzen, where a 20% improvement in clock…

> That being said, a 4ghz Skylake core crushes a 4ghz Core 2 core.

Core 2 Duos were slower per clock than Pentium 4s, I think by quite a bit. It was a real set back for performance when they came out.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#199

Post by bluedino »

kakwa_ wrote: post #70
nullnilvoid wrote: post #4

As a consumer, it's great to see competition picking up in the CPU market. Intel does not seem to be able to hold the edge in node process as tsmc and Samsung are matching intel. It has to resort to architecture design.

Well actually I think it's more a case of "increase in performance is becoming harder and harder, the technology leader (Intel) is slowly becoming stuck and the competition (AMD) is catching up". Everybody will be more or less at the same level as it requires huge investments to only get a marginal advantage. Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os)…

Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os) on a 10 years old computer (2007 core 2 duo). But in 2007 I would not have thought for a minute that I could do the same on a 1997 computer (Pentium II), and installing 1997 software on a 1987 computer (80386), just no.

People like to say a Core 2 Duo can still hang, and while it might be okay for basic tasks (and you could use a 10 years old computer in 2007 for basic tasks like word processing, internet), modern PC's are much faster.

On benchmarks you're going to be 4-6x faster on most tasks with a 2017 Macbook Pro compared to a 2007, and then don't even get started with anything that takes advantage of SIMD or GP workloads.

The other reason people say they can use a 10 year old PC today is because they've upgraded it. Early Core 2 Duo systems shipped with 512MB or 1GB RAM. They came with very slow 80GB hard drives. Upgrading to an SSD and 4-6GB of RAM is a must.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#200

Post by bhauer »

majidazimi wrote: post #151

Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...

Well, seeing as so many applications remain single-threaded despite years of mainstream multi-core CPUs, that shouldn't be too hard. Especially with many mentors in our industry cautioning new programmers that "concurrency is hard" so often that—at least within my small social network—new developers have been conditioned to avoid subjects like threading.

Yes, concurrency is a challenge, but it's tremendously rewarding. Plus modern languages make it much easier than it was in the past.

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