71–80 of 226 posts
As far as I know sawstop will trigger on wood that is lightly damp. And at ~$100 per occurrence it gets expensive fast ($70 for sawstop cartridge and 15-50 for a new blade.) Yes there is a bypass but you don't always know if the wood is too wet or not.
As far as I know sawstop will trigger on wood that is lightly damp. And at ~$100 per occurrence it gets expensive fast ($70 for sawstop cartridge and 15-50 for a new blade.) Yes there is a bypass but you don't always know if the wood is too wet or not.
There should be a mode you can touch the wood to the blade before it's spinning and it will tell you if it's damp enough to trigger it.
Ya, no. Besides the horrendous patent issue (say goodbye to market competition), this will double the price of table saws. No thanks. Consumer protection laws are not about making obvious choices for me. Its supposed to protect me from the unknown unknowns - things that the average consumer would not know is dangerous. Everyone has heard about these safer saws for over a decade now. Everyone knows saws are dangerous.…
In a (slightly more) rational society, we would recognize the health care costs [1] of all those saw victims, and divert a bit of money to equip all saws with this technology. If it becomes mandatory I wouldn't want manufacturers and customers to pay more. You could cancel his patent, but I think why not let the inventor get his "reward". I would take the money for licenses and implementation from health and disabili…
In a rational society we would let people make their own choices. We can raise insurance raise rates on people who act dangerously, and disallow frivolous lawsuits from people that circumvent existing safety features. There is no need for the government to regulate table saws that only risk the individual using it.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about employees or students who have to use the equipment? They can't force their employer or educator to spend the money, but it's their fingers that'll be lost. Maybe laws to ensure that if you are employing or in any way requiring someone use your saw you need the safety features. The patent stuff is it's own issue for sure, and yet another example of how crappy the system is.
AFAIK schools already have these because they're pocket change to a school budget and students are notoriously dumb. It makes sense. So perhaps, we can think about a law but we should first evaluate if it is necessary. I can agree with the sentiment.
Ya, no. Besides the horrendous patent issue (say goodbye to market competition), this will double the price of table saws. No thanks. Consumer protection laws are not about making obvious choices for me. Its supposed to protect me from the unknown unknowns - things that the average consumer would not know is dangerous. Everyone has heard about these safer saws for over a decade now. Everyone knows saws are dangerous.…
Everyone isn't quite accurate; do they sell and advertise saws with this at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. where most people buy their power tools? I also think that thinking this will remove consumer choice is inaccurate as well, because if this was mandatory it's not like current saw manufacturers would simply stop selling saws. My understanding is this product doesn't really change much over time, and while there might b…
Yes, they did. Both companies carried Bosch REAXX saws, which have injury detection sensors, and are advertised accordingly.
^edited to past tense because there's apparently an injunction banning US sales of REAXX. So they tried to, and the reason they don't is that the company advocating for this law won't let them.
> I also think that thinking this will remove consumer choice is inaccurate as well, because if this was mandatory it's not like current saw manufacturers would simply stop selling saws
First, it still removes consumer choice to massively increase the price of saws. The cheapest sensing models I can find listed are >$1,000. The cheapest table saws at Home Depot are ~$400. Tripling the price of the cheapest model is absolutely a restriction of choice, and one that's going to hurt both hobbyists and professionals.
Beyond that, Bosch REAXX is currently being sued by SawStop, the same company/inventor pushing for this legal requirement. Does it restrict consumer choice if there's only one legal brand, all the others having been sued out of the market?
I agree that this technology is makes saws safer. I'm not at all convinced that the safety justifies handing a single company a government monopoly on table saws.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they got a patent right as the technology became feasible.
Really? Which bits of the technology were infeasible prior to this?
Ya, no. Besides the horrendous patent issue (say goodbye to market competition), this will double the price of table saws. No thanks. Consumer protection laws are not about making obvious choices for me. Its supposed to protect me from the unknown unknowns - things that the average consumer would not know is dangerous. Everyone has heard about these safer saws for over a decade now. Everyone knows saws are dangerous.…
Everyone isn't quite accurate; do they sell and advertise saws with this at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. where most people buy their power tools? I also think that thinking this will remove consumer choice is inaccurate as well, because if this was mandatory it's not like current saw manufacturers would simply stop selling saws. My understanding is this product doesn't really change much over time, and while there might b…
Bosch released a saw with similar tech (called Reaxx -- https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/more/news-and-extras/specia...) but they were forced to stop selling it.
To answer your first question, you can't buy a SawStop at Home Depot or Lowes.
If this tech was mandatory, it would force other saw manufacturers to charge $200 more per saw to cover patent licensing from SawStop/Festool.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a (slightly more) rational society, we would recognize the health care costs [1] of all those saw victims, and divert a bit of money to equip all saws with this technology. If it becomes mandatory I wouldn't want manufacturers and customers to pay more. You could cancel his patent, but I think why not let the inventor get his "reward". I would take the money for licenses and implementation from health and disabili…
Table saws aren't in the same class as cars. Table saws are mostly used by competent people and the injury rate is pretty low. When an accident does happen it only involves a single person and usually requires a few stitches. The cost savings of avoiding a few thousand people needing stitches is not even close to the cost of "modernizing the table saw fleet.". Plus, saws already come with a plethora of safety feature…
4000 people a year suffer from being mangled by a table saw. That's losing digits or an appendage (their entire hand). (NPR had a story about this a week or two ago)
EDIT: Let's say, conservatively, each accident on average costs $100K in medical costs, disability, etc. That's $400 million/year in costs. Just a hunch, but adding the safety break seems like a clear win.
I suppose that's a perverse benefit of healthcare being so broken in America; its so expensive, its usually cheaper to fix the problem then to dump it on the healthcare system as an externality.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't sawing through wood with nails really dangerous?
Yes, but sometimes necessary if you cannot extract the nail. It is mostly risking damage to equipment. (Oh, forgot safety glasses.)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
AFAIK schools already have these because they're pocket change to a school budget and students are notoriously dumb. It makes sense. So perhaps, we can think about a law but we should first evaluate if it is necessary. I can agree with the sentiment.
As TFA discusses, this certainly wasn't the case in 2013 when Mr. Ward had his hand destroyed in a high school shop. This technology had already been available for a decade at that point. Anyway the fact that a $400 machine has this feature doesn't mean that big multi-user shops can spend $400 and get it. Cheap table saws are made very cheaply, and are much less useful than $2000-and-up table saws. (More expensive/be…
That said, many school districts already have made the switch. My high school already had a Sawstop by the time I first took a woodshop class in 2006, and it had already stopped multiple students from losing fingers.