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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#161

Post by thinkfurther »

piva00 wrote: post #159
thinkfurther wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the depths of not taking that advice and what lurks in them? Do you know that if everybody simply took it to heart, there'd be nothing unrealistic about it at all? How many months of abstinence and solidarity would be required to end these practices, or the companies if they so wish? And then that money simply shifts to ethical companies and we actually have a future. Or, we keep pretending it's all so ve…

You are asking for the whole of humanity to stop buying some of the most sought after products of modern times from two of the best-selling makers of that industry. I am all in for some philosophical discussion but actually being this detached from reality doesn't make you any good. It's not because you can see the stars that you can reach for them right now... So yes, in summary: it is hard, to the point of impossib…

Pfff. It's the strike breakers that make it hard.

Keep that up for a while longer, and it will become a physical impossibility, as any gesture of resistance leads to automatic extermination. Until then? Thanks for nothing.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#162

Post by e12e »

vbezhenar wrote: post #116
sspiff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this should be discussed in this thread. Also, I don't know of any alternative that doesn't have large unauditable blobs integrated into the chip. All ARM SoCs come with radio processors that are running a non-trivial piece of software with full access to the system memory, which is responsible for power management, boot sequence and wireless communications. It is by definition network connected. AMD has…

Check out Talos II motherboard. It's a workstation-class motherboard with dual POWER9 CPUs for $2750. It's a good price for workstation computer IMO. They claim that all their firmware is open source. Specifications are quite modern. The only problem is (kind of) exotic architecture, but many people would be able to use it with open source software.

> It's a workstation-class motherboard with dual POWER9 CPUs

Isn't it more accurate to say it might at some point be available as a motherboard with power 9 CPUs?

I mean, it looks very interesting, but afaik no-one has been shown even a prototype yet?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#163

Post by davemp »

bitL wrote: post #155
ZenoArrow wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel didn't buy NVIDIA, but they did buy Altera, and there's plenty of room for growth with FPGAs.

Aren't FPGAs mainly for design phase and the real crunching in the industry done on ASICs? At least whole automotive industry works that way - FPGAs to design/test stuff, ASICs for production and making money.

Nope, plently of people do heavy computing with FPGAs.

The speedup between FPGA -> ASIC is not that dramatic. Their real advantage is power draw and ammortized cost. FPGAs also have to initialize when powering up.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#164

Post by v4n4d1s »

turblety wrote: post #99
andy_ppp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone here know someone who works on these various management engines? It'd be interesting to see if the security services were involved or if they really were back dooring all computers right? My guess is it's definitely possible but it would have been popped by foreign agencies by now too and there would have been a leak of tools to exploit such devices? I guess maybe it's very tempting to be able to hack any…

There was this floating around a while ago: https://i.redd.it/id88hvysu3ny.png

"The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#165

Post by iplaw »

majidazimi wrote: post #151

Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...

I will say that, despite its many shortcomings and after I was able to overcome the netbook-induced Atom stigmas, I really do like the Atom for small-business NAS applications.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#166

Post by jcadam »

qubex wrote: post #136
vbezhenar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Talos II motherboard. It's a workstation-class motherboard with dual POWER9 CPUs for $2750. It's a good price for workstation computer IMO. They claim that all their firmware is open source. Specifications are quite modern. The only problem is (kind of) exotic architecture, but many people would be able to use it with open source software.

I was scanning thought he comments to see if somebody had already mentioned this and if you hadn't I would have. I am finding the Talos II an increasingly attractive proposition, even though the prices got a full system are quite staggering by comparison to mainstream hardware.

Though if you're comparing the Talos II to a Mac Pro, the price difference isn't quite as staggering :P

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#167

Post by will_hughes »

iplaw wrote: post #165
majidazimi wrote: post #151

Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...

I will say that, despite its many shortcomings and after I was able to overcome the netbook-induced Atom stigmas, I really do like the Atom for small-business NAS applications.

Pretty sure the comment was about the Atom and Electron editor / framework.

https://atom.io/ https://electron.atom.io/

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#168

Post by [deleted] »

turblety wrote: post #154
jsudhams wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it does affect only Desktop workload right? Because on servers as long as we use virtuals we should be good. Am i right?

No. Basically the Intel ME is a completely separate ARM processor that's physically stuck onto each Intel Processor. It has direct access to everything the Intel chip does. The memory it's allocating, the hardware commands (ie keyboard, mouse, display), the software running, the processes running. This all happens at a higher level than the actual Intel processor and you have no control over it at all. Basically what…

[deleted]

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#169

Post by jcadam »

cyphar wrote: post #130
dis-sys wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one should purchase or use any processor made by Intel or AMD until they address these serious issues. so go back to stone age by stop using all PCs/Servers? nice troll.

In addition to MiniFree, there's the Talos II[1] which is an entirely free motherboard and CPU (based on IBM's POWER9). It's a very modern CPU specification, and is also fairly powerful. Currently pre-orders are open. They are a bit pricey (~$2k for a fully prebuilt machine), but if you feel that you want a more powerful CPU that is an option. They also have server offerings. [1]: https://www.raptorcs.com/content/bas…

Back in the days when a new computer became hopelessly obsolete within 3 years, I would never have considered spending that much. But perhaps now I might :)

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#170

Post by twoodfin »

chrisseaton wrote: post #153
std_throwaway wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gains in instructions-per-clock start to flatten out. And that's where the gains were coming from in the last years. Some time ago a paper was posted here that showed how even if you have an infinite amount of transistors, you will still be limited in the range of 3-10 instructions-per-clock for typical programs. Clock speeds seem to have leveled and IPC will only see another gain of 50-100%. Single threaded performa…

> Some time ago a paper was posted here that showed how even if you have an infinite amount of transistors, you will still be limited in the range of 3-10 instructions-per-clock for typical programs. Do you know what papers that was? I would have thought that with infinite transistors you could speculatively execute all possible future code paths and memory states at the same time and achieve speedup that way.

Oldie but goodie:

http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/WRL-93-6.pdf

Speculation can only take you so far. How do you speculatively execute something like:

   a = a + b[x];
?

You can't even speculatively fetch the second operand until you have real values for b and x.

Trying to model all possible values explodes so much faster than all possible control paths that it's only of very theoretical interest.

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