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Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

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Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#31

Post by captainmuon »

randyrand wrote: post #25

Ya, no. Besides the horrendous patent issue (say goodbye to market competition), this will double the price of table saws. No thanks. Consumer protection laws are not about making obvious choices for me. Its supposed to protect me from the unknown unknowns - things that the average consumer would not know is dangerous. Everyone has heard about these safer saws for over a decade now. Everyone knows saws are dangerous.…

In a (slightly more) rational society, we would recognize the health care costs [1] of all those saw victims, and divert a bit of money to equip all saws with this technology.

If it becomes mandatory I wouldn't want manufacturers and customers to pay more. You could cancel his patent, but I think why not let the inventor get his "reward". I would take the money for licenses and implementation from health and disability insurers.

Of course, our system is really bad in making these kind of sensible re-allocations, so that probably won't happen.

[1] + loss of life quality and future income

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#32

Post by nippples »

msie wrote: post #2

Sad, sad, sad. Greed trumps safety. I wonder how many other safety inventions have not reached mass adoption?

Off the top of my head, I can think that the saw getting false positives or being incapable of cutting anything conductive, which may be my precise goal as a tool user, as dealbreakers on this feature.

Nothing to do with greed.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#33

Post by captainmuon »

readams wrote: post #5

They don't mention if it's possible to build saws without sawstop patents. Is this guy lobbying for all saw companies to be required to license his technology? EDIT: It appears that they're currently suing Bosch for developing their own similar technology.

And since they are suing, people can't buy Bosch's technology, and probably a lot less saw-stoppers are installed.

Also, it seems the SawStop version is destructive, as opposed to Bosch's. That means you have an expense every time it fires.

So this lawsuit is causing a lot of lost fingers, and some lost money. It would be really funny (although unrealistic) if somebody could be held responsible for all damages caused by the lawsuit.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#34

Post by WalterBright »

pfranz wrote: post #21
inb4dangshitban wrote: post #6

From what I saw, the entire system is more or less single use, resulting in a destruction of the sawblade and the catch. As well as severe shock to the drive. I'm not one bit surprised there is serious opposition to the idea, capitalism and all

Well, you'd only lose your blade and cartridge if you would have otherwise cut yourself...so it sounds like a good trade. Yes, it does get triggered if you have a stray nail in your wood (bad idea) or if the wood is too wet. But from the little experience I have, it'd only be triggered by wood that's wetter than you'd want to cut in the first place. SawStop is used at our community woodshop. I've seen it go off (some…

If the blade had slowed down substantially before it was set off, the potential for damage would be greatly reduced.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#35

Post by kashkhan »

Latty wrote: post #30
randyrand wrote: post #25

Ya, no. Besides the horrendous patent issue (say goodbye to market competition), this will double the price of table saws. No thanks. Consumer protection laws are not about making obvious choices for me. Its supposed to protect me from the unknown unknowns - things that the average consumer would not know is dangerous. Everyone has heard about these safer saws for over a decade now. Everyone knows saws are dangerous.…

What about employees or students who have to use the equipment? They can't force their employer or educator to spend the money, but it's their fingers that'll be lost. Maybe laws to ensure that if you are employing or in any way requiring someone use your saw you need the safety features. The patent stuff is it's own issue for sure, and yet another example of how crappy the system is.

just make injury insurance mandatory for tools like this in institutions, and have lower premium for safe tools.

Same could be done for guns.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#36

Post by kashkhan »

antongribok wrote: post #13
readams wrote: post #5

They don't mention if it's possible to build saws without sawstop patents. Is this guy lobbying for all saw companies to be required to license his technology? EDIT: It appears that they're currently suing Bosch for developing their own similar technology.

Not just suing, they have an injunction and at the moment you can't buy a saw in the USA with Bosch's REAXX technology, which actually works quite differently than SawStop. Here are two videos where you can compare for yourself: SawStop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE Bosch REAXX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heF0Y2-QYc Here's an article that talks about the lawsuit: https://www.protoolreviews.com/ne…

if he really cared about fingers, he would sell the patent for a million and save thousands of fingers a year.

Just like volvo gave up the three point belt patent for public interest.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#37

Post by thanksgiving »

makomk wrote: post #28
birdman3131 wrote: post #15

As far as I know sawstop will trigger on wood that is lightly damp. And at ~$100 per occurrence it gets expensive fast ($70 for sawstop cartridge and 15-50 for a new blade.) Yes there is a bypass but you don't always know if the wood is too wet or not.

Bosch have a better system that doesn't destroy the blade or require the cartridge to be replaced every time because it merely retracts the blade very quickly into the bed, but SawStop are using their patents to stop Bosch from selling it. Apparently they went to the effort of patenting every possible approach that doesn't require the expensive but profitable single-use cartridge even though they have no intention of…

As horrible as patents are, this seems like an abuse even if the patent system. I think all patents should expire no more than five years from application date or one year from certification date whichever is longer.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#39

Post by cooper12 »

kashkhan wrote: post #35
Latty wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about employees or students who have to use the equipment? They can't force their employer or educator to spend the money, but it's their fingers that'll be lost. Maybe laws to ensure that if you are employing or in any way requiring someone use your saw you need the safety features. The patent stuff is it's own issue for sure, and yet another example of how crappy the system is.

just make injury insurance mandatory for tools like this in institutions, and have lower premium for safe tools. Same could be done for guns.

Insurance is after the fact. Won't prevent you from losing your fingers.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#40

Post by vilda »

makomk wrote: post #28
birdman3131 wrote: post #15

As far as I know sawstop will trigger on wood that is lightly damp. And at ~$100 per occurrence it gets expensive fast ($70 for sawstop cartridge and 15-50 for a new blade.) Yes there is a bypass but you don't always know if the wood is too wet or not.

Bosch have a better system that doesn't destroy the blade or require the cartridge to be replaced every time because it merely retracts the blade very quickly into the bed, but SawStop are using their patents to stop Bosch from selling it. Apparently they went to the effort of patenting every possible approach that doesn't require the expensive but profitable single-use cartridge even though they have no intention of…

Looking at the system, it looks like even Bosch needs to replace some components after the safety system kicks in.
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