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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#91

Post by Dylan16807 »

hvidgaard wrote: post #85
slededit wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XPM has nothing to do with finding primes used in RSA, I'm not sure where that came from. It's POW is finding cunningham chains of smaller sized primes. That said I wouldn't be surprised if it could be adapted to find larger primes on a GPU significantly faster than a CPU.

It was simply a response to your statement about bruteforcing anything. There is some ways to factor a prime that is much faster than bruteforcing, and yes they work on a GPU. But that has nothing to do with bruteforcing, but clever math.

The statement was about the relative speed of a thousand dumb cores vs. a couple really good cores. Not about absolute speed.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#92

Post by wiz21c »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

yep. Once everything will be under control, having the freedom to write your own software, especially software that challenges the rules, will be useless...

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#93

Post by nostrademons »

std_throwaway wrote: post #74
kakwa_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually I think it's more a case of "increase in performance is becoming harder and harder, the technology leader (Intel) is slowly becoming stuck and the competition (AMD) is catching up". Everybody will be more or less at the same level as it requires huge investments to only get a marginal advantage. Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os)…

Gains in instructions-per-clock start to flatten out. And that's where the gains were coming from in the last years. Some time ago a paper was posted here that showed how even if you have an infinite amount of transistors, you will still be limited in the range of 3-10 instructions-per-clock for typical programs. Clock speeds seem to have leveled and IPC will only see another gain of 50-100%. Single threaded performa…

GPUs:

http://michaelgalloy.com/2013/06/11/cpu-vs-gpu-performance.h...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/...

This is behind much of the interest in machine learning these days. Deep learning provides a way to approximate any computable function as the composition of matrix operations with non-linearities. It does this at the cost of requiring many, many times the computing power. But much of this computing cost can be parallelized and accelerated effectively on the GPU, so with GPU cores still increasing exponentially, at some point it's likely to become more effective than CPUs.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#94

Post by rphlx »

std_throwaway wrote: post #74
kakwa_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually I think it's more a case of "increase in performance is becoming harder and harder, the technology leader (Intel) is slowly becoming stuck and the competition (AMD) is catching up". Everybody will be more or less at the same level as it requires huge investments to only get a marginal advantage. Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os)…

Gains in instructions-per-clock start to flatten out. And that's where the gains were coming from in the last years. Some time ago a paper was posted here that showed how even if you have an infinite amount of transistors, you will still be limited in the range of 3-10 instructions-per-clock for typical programs. Clock speeds seem to have leveled and IPC will only see another gain of 50-100%. Single threaded performa…

> Gains in instructions-per-clock start to flatten out. And that's where the gains were coming from in the last years.

This is commonly claimed but it's actually false for x86_64 desktop parts. For a single core scalar integer workload the IPC boost from i7-2700k to i7-7700k was maybe 20-25% on a great day, but the base frequency increase was a further 20%, and max boost freq increase ~15%. The frequency increase is of similar importance as the IPC increase.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#95

Post by slededit »

coldtea wrote: post #81
slededit wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining. There were algorithms that were specifically designed to be GPU resistant and they all were ported and saw significant gains. It was that experience that pushed me to learn how to program these devices. The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The…

> I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining. 99% of the apps we use are totally unlike cryptocoin mining. And the style they are written (and more importantly, their function) is even more GPU resistant. > The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The speedups are just too tremendous. Don't…

While true in the short term, it should be noted Intel is moving more towards the GPU model with its many slower core CPUs and very wide vector units. There is value in a large core capable of fast out of order execution for control purposes. But data processing can be done much faster with a GPU model.

You can even implement explicit speculative execution - simply use a warp for each path and choose at the end. It is very wasteful but can often come out ahead.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#96

Post by rekado »

baq wrote: post #89
turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

The backdoor is super useful for large enterprises, don't hope for much.

It would be more useful for them if it could be controlled at the source level. The management engine would be fine if it were free software and could be replaced.

I'm very unhappy with my old Sun servers, for example, because the management system cannot be upgraded and the servers are no longer supported. I'm stuck with proprietary insecure software that I depend on and that I have no way of changing. It's all worse if the insecure outdated software can only be replaced by soldering wires to a chip on the board.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#97

Post by andy_ppp »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

Does anyone here know someone who works on these various management engines? It'd be interesting to see if the security services were involved or if they really were back dooring all computers right?

My guess is it's definitely possible but it would have been popped by foreign agencies by now too and there would have been a leak of tools to exploit such devices? I guess maybe it's very tempting to be able to hack any device though so knowing the NSA they are probably for doing this, fuck the consequences?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#98

Post by [deleted] »

gfody wrote: post #43
jerf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Osborne effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect Although it has been deliberately deployed many times now, as you note one example of.

seems like Intel is willing to cannibalize Skylake-X to hurt Threadripper. I think that means Threadripper must be looming large at Intel.

[deleted]

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#99

Post by turblety »

andy_ppp wrote: post #97
turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

Does anyone here know someone who works on these various management engines? It'd be interesting to see if the security services were involved or if they really were back dooring all computers right? My guess is it's definitely possible but it would have been popped by foreign agencies by now too and there would have been a leak of tools to exploit such devices? I guess maybe it's very tempting to be able to hack any…

There was this floating around a while ago: https://i.redd.it/id88hvysu3ny.png

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#100

Post by Dolores12 »

GuiA wrote: post #77
Dolores12 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consider relative change it looks like 2011: 32nm 2012: 31% size reduction 2014: 36% size reduction 2018: 28,5% size reduction

Yes, but in 1, 2, and 4 years respectively.

In 8 years, in 2026, we expect 7nm.
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