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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#81

Post by coldtea »

slededit wrote: post #54
davemp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by major apps? Do you have some reason to believe that apps will suddenly become embarrassingly parallel? Major apps often don't even take full advantage of SIMD instructions on the CPU. As soon as you need a context switch, branching, or fast memory access your GPU is crap. GPUs are only good at _very_ specific workloads.

I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining. There were algorithms that were specifically designed to be GPU resistant and they all were ported and saw significant gains. It was that experience that pushed me to learn how to program these devices. The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The…

>I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining.

99% of the apps we use are totally unlike cryptocoin mining. And the style they are written (and more importantly, their function) is even more GPU resistant.

>The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The speedups are just too tremendous.

Don't hold your breath. For one, nobody's porting the thousands of apps we already have and depend on everyday to GPU.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#82

Post by slededit »

hvidgaard wrote: post #80
slededit wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primecoin is a good example. If you look at the implementation it requires generating a tightly packed bitfield for the sieve and then randomly accessing it after. Lots of synchronization required so you don't overwrite previously set bits are required and the memory accesses are random so its suboptimal for the GPU's memory subsystem. It took under a year for a GPU miner to come out. Having optimized it for Intel in…

> a thousand cores can brute force its way through anything This is so fundamentally wrong that your complete lack of understanding the underlying math is obvious. Let us use 1024bit RSA as the key to bruteforce. If we use the entire universe as a computer, i.e. every single atom in the observable universe enumerate 1 possibility every millisecond, it would take ~6 * 10^211 years to go through them all. In comparison…

XPM has nothing to do with finding primes used in RSA, I'm not sure where that came from. It's POW is finding cunningham chains of smaller sized primes. That said I wouldn't be surprised if it could be adapted to find larger primes on a GPU significantly faster than a CPU.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#83

Post by turblety »

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3]

Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use any processor made by Intel or AMD until they address these serious issues.

1. https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel

2. https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/

3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14708575

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#84

Post by jabl »

GuiA wrote: post #10

According to the table in the article: - 2011: 32nm - 2012: 22nm - 2014: 14nm - 2018?: 10nm I don't know much about foundry processes, but it seems that it's taking more and more time for lesser and lesser gains, right? At this rate, how long until we reach sub nanometer? What are the physical limits on these processes, and does it have any implications for end users? Will we be using 2nm CPUs for 50 years? Would lov…

> I don't know much about foundry processes, but it seems that it's taking more and more time for lesser and lesser gains, right? At this rate, how long until we reach sub nanometer? What are the physical limits on these processes, and does it have any implications for end users? Will we be using 2nm CPUs for 50 years?

The lattice constant of crystalline silicon is 0.54 nm, and since it's an FCC structure the distance between neighboring atoms is 0.38 nm. So with a hypothetical 2 nm CPU, some feature would be only roughly 5 atoms across, which leaves VERY little room for manufacturing tolerance. How would one manufacture a device containing billions of transistors with such small tolerances? I don't think we'll ever see such things, at least not with a lithography approach.

Heck, I think it's close to black magic that they are able to produce transistors on a 10nm process, but apparently experts say that up to 5nm (13 atoms!!!) might be possible.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#85

Post by hvidgaard »

slededit wrote: post #82
hvidgaard wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a thousand cores can brute force its way through anything This is so fundamentally wrong that your complete lack of understanding the underlying math is obvious. Let us use 1024bit RSA as the key to bruteforce. If we use the entire universe as a computer, i.e. every single atom in the observable universe enumerate 1 possibility every millisecond, it would take ~6 * 10^211 years to go through them all. In comparison…

XPM has nothing to do with finding primes used in RSA, I'm not sure where that came from. It's POW is finding cunningham chains of smaller sized primes. That said I wouldn't be surprised if it could be adapted to find larger primes on a GPU significantly faster than a CPU.

It was simply a response to your statement about bruteforcing anything.

There is some ways to factor a prime that is much faster than bruteforcing, and yes they work on a GPU. But that has nothing to do with bruteforcing, but clever math.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#86

Post by lathiat »

verroq wrote: post #32

Anyone else get redirected to malware?

This has happened to me multiple times.

I've reported it to them a couple of times, last time Ryan Smith told me on twitter that I'm welcome to report it to him direct: https://twitter.com/ryansmithat/status/877409854087806976

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#87

Post by piva00 »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

You know the depth of how unrealistic is your advice, right?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#88

Post by lawik »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

Interesting. Pragmatically, are there any okay-ish options for consumer-level processors and motherboards that are not Intel or AMD?

ARM devices?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#89

Post by baq »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

The backdoor is super useful for large enterprises, don't hope for much.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#90

Post by sspiff »

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

I'm not sure this should be discussed in this thread.

Also, I don't know of any alternative that doesn't have large unauditable blobs integrated into the chip.

All ARM SoCs come with radio processors that are running a non-trivial piece of software with full access to the system memory, which is responsible for power management, boot sequence and wireless communications. It is by definition network connected.

AMD has a technology it calls the Platform Security Processor (PSP for short) which does basically the same thing.

To have a processor that doesn't have this kind of technology, you have to give up on decades of advancement in compute power, or buy a very expensive and non-portable POWER8 or POWER9 system.

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