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Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

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11–20 of 226 posts

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#11
post #8

If big companies won't adopt it, startup a company and build a better saw and people will buy it. Table saws are dangerous, I remember in high school having a piece of wood splinter and fly past my head hitting the ceiling. People don't seem to have problems buying safety with cars, I see it as just an industry full of cheap ass power tools that constantly need replacing. I'd buy such a saw just so when my dumb ass n…

The sawstop guy did just that. Power tools are an area where brand matters more than normal.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it greed exactly? Wouldn't the saws just cost more? I suppose the R&D on building the components into their current products is something they don't want to do, so maybe that's the greed aspect?

I think the greed mentioned here is that SawStop is lobbying to make it mandatory for saws to use their technology while trying to stop others from bringing similar systems to market, all so that they can price-gouge a captive market. IIRC last time it was discussed here, they were trying to charge ~$100 per saw to license their tech, when the usual margin on a saw was about a quarter of that. If they just accepted a…

I wonder if they'd be happy with a kickstarter like campaign to put the patent in the public domain.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#13
post #5

They don't mention if it's possible to build saws without sawstop patents. Is this guy lobbying for all saw companies to be required to license his technology? EDIT: It appears that they're currently suing Bosch for developing their own similar technology.

Not just suing, they have an injunction and at the moment you can't buy a saw in the USA with Bosch's REAXX technology, which actually works quite differently than SawStop.

Here are two videos where you can compare for yourself:

SawStop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE

Bosch REAXX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heF0Y2-QYc

Here's an article that talks about the lawsuit: https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/sawstop-vs-bosch-reaxx-l...

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it greed exactly? Wouldn't the saws just cost more? I suppose the R&D on building the components into their current products is something they don't want to do, so maybe that's the greed aspect?

I think the greed mentioned here is that SawStop is lobbying to make it mandatory for saws to use their technology while trying to stop others from bringing similar systems to market, all so that they can price-gouge a captive market. IIRC last time it was discussed here, they were trying to charge ~$100 per saw to license their tech, when the usual margin on a saw was about a quarter of that. If they just accepted a…

Thanks for putting that into better light. So it's SawStop that is asking for too high a license, they aren't getting bites at that price point, and now trying to get legislation to force other companies to pony up.

Now I get the greed aspect, should have been more obvious. I was thinking in terms of component cost and not licensing cost, how naive of me...

Though in this case, at least they did create something novel making the patent legit.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#15
As far as I know sawstop will trigger on wood that is lightly damp. And at ~$100 per occurrence it gets expensive fast ($70 for sawstop cartridge and 15-50 for a new blade.)

Yes there is a bypass but you don't always know if the wood is too wet or not.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#16
I own and use a tablesaw for home maintenance, and occasionally building utilitarian furniture, loudspeaker boxes (musician here), etc. My saw is an ancient Sears Roebuck that a buddy found at a garage sale.

I'm aware of the SawStop technology, but haven't felt motivated to buy a brand new saw. The deal for me is simply that I don't have enough use for a saw, to justify buying a new one. I wouldn't recommend this approach to anybody else -- just using myself as an example of a person who has somehow rationalized keeping the old technology.

My approach is to limit what I do with the saw. My hands never go anywhere near the blade. For smaller workpieces, intricate cuts, etc., I use hand tools or just figure out a different design. I'm willing to waste wood rather than try getting one last cut out of a scrap. Also, I simply don't use it very often. Most of the time it sits with the blade retraced, covered with bicycle parts.

But in a lot of fields, it's impossible to discuss safety, or to get a straight answer about safety questions. Every technology has detractors with arguments that it is actually more dangerous. (Try reading web forum threads about bike helmets).

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#17
post #2

Sad, sad, sad. Greed trumps safety. I wonder how many other safety inventions have not reached mass adoption?

They don't and wouldn't have to mandate that specific technology. They would specify it by the nature of the injury, not the nature of the prevention.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#18
Last time I tried one of these, I warped the drive shaft so badly the saw was entirely unusable ever again.

And that was a brand-new demo unit put on the floor specifically to show it off.

I'll take my chances and use the time-tested method of using a custom-built wooden jig to hold the piece while it goes through the blade.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#19
post #5

They don't mention if it's possible to build saws without sawstop patents. Is this guy lobbying for all saw companies to be required to license his technology? EDIT: It appears that they're currently suing Bosch for developing their own similar technology.

Not just suing, they have an injunction and at the moment you can't buy a saw in the USA with Bosch's REAXX technology, which actually works quite differently than SawStop. Here are two videos where you can compare for yourself: SawStop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE Bosch REAXX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heF0Y2-QYc Here's an article that talks about the lawsuit: https://www.protoolreviews.com/ne…

Clarification: If I'm understanding this right, the stopping the saw works differently, but the detection works the same.

Re: Despite Proven Technology, Attempts to Make Table Saws Safer Drag On

#20
post #4

I do wonder if this is an issue of misaligned incentives. If a person has workers' comp insurance through their company, why not give a reduced price to the company if they deploy this tool? The owner can show they reduce the risk of high payouts. The insurance company should, rationally, drop the bill by 50-100 a year. Even 30-50 could make the price difference of the saw worth it then.

My local community workshop has it. You're also responsible for paying for a new blade and cartridge if you trigger it. If you're a community workshop it seems like a no brainer because of liability.

But on the flip side, some construction workers pin back the blade guard on circular saws because it can get in the way.

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