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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#51

Post by deepnotderp »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read on HN, a couple months ago, these numbers no longer represent the physical size of anything but are now just a marketing label, a sort of 'performance equivalent to a theoretical size of'. Anyone know if there's any truth to this? Might try to find the comment later when I have time.

Think of them as relative indications of feature size and of spacing between identical parts (arrays if you want to use a software analogy), so even if an actual transistor will not be 10 nm or 14 nm their relative sizes will relate on one axis as 10 nm to 14 nm. Keeping the numbers from a single manufacturer will definitely aid in the comparison. There is a ton of black magic going on here with layers being stacked…

If you think that lithography is challenging, your brain is going to invert looking at the litho technology for 7nm and onwards :)

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#52

Post by leggomylibro »

GuiA wrote: post #10

According to the table in the article: - 2011: 32nm - 2012: 22nm - 2014: 14nm - 2018?: 10nm I don't know much about foundry processes, but it seems that it's taking more and more time for lesser and lesser gains, right? At this rate, how long until we reach sub nanometer? What are the physical limits on these processes, and does it have any implications for end users? Will we be using 2nm CPUs for 50 years? Would lov…

I think that beyond our current processes, there is the potential for different materials to take the place of XXnm silicon processes, which could fit more transistors in a smaller area.

Research like: http://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2017/08/11/new-ultra...

"3D" processes which build multiple layers on top of one another may also see more investment as other methods become prohibitively expensive. And once you've cheaply gone to 2 layers in a big blob of epoxy, what's stopping you from doing 4? 8? 16? 32? [Heat dissipation, probably]

But whatever, people have been saying Moore's Law is dead since Moore's Law was invented. Who knows whether we'll technically hit one milestone or another. Things get faster, what the hell.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#53

Post by msh »

mappu wrote: post #42
sjtrny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I thought it was my DNS or something. It only happens on mobile.

Anandtech have great content, but their advertising can be... aggressive. I assume you have an adblocker on desktop but not on mobile?

They have fallen a long way since Adnan ran the site...

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#54

Post by slededit »

davemp wrote: post #16
slededit wrote: post #9

At this point real compute happens on the GPU. I think we'll see a shift to major apps being driven by GPGPU. The CPU's performance has started matter less and less.

What do you mean by major apps? Do you have some reason to believe that apps will suddenly become embarrassingly parallel? Major apps often don't even take full advantage of SIMD instructions on the CPU. As soon as you need a context switch, branching, or fast memory access your GPU is crap. GPUs are only good at _very_ specific workloads.

I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining. There were algorithms that were specifically designed to be GPU resistant and they all were ported and saw significant gains. It was that experience that pushed me to learn how to program these devices.

The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The speedups are just too tremendous.

Intel knows this, which is why they purposely limit PCIe bandwidth.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#55

Post by a012 »

iainmerrick wrote: post #48
zanny wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libreoffice has OpenCL acceleration for some spreadsheet operations. With the advent of NVME storage, and the potential bandwidth it yields, I would expect to see database systems emerging that can GPGPU accelerate operations on tables to be way, way faster than what a CPU can handle.

What on earth are people doing on spreadsheets that needs GPU acceleration??

You never worked with accounting I guess. They easily get a single spreadsheet that's over 1GB, and that's normal.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#56

Post by IntelMiner »

slededit wrote: post #54
davemp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by major apps? Do you have some reason to believe that apps will suddenly become embarrassingly parallel? Major apps often don't even take full advantage of SIMD instructions on the CPU. As soon as you need a context switch, branching, or fast memory access your GPU is crap. GPUs are only good at _very_ specific workloads.

I used to believe that, until I started to get into cryptocoin mining. There were algorithms that were specifically designed to be GPU resistant and they all were ported and saw significant gains. It was that experience that pushed me to learn how to program these devices. The tooling isn't good enough yet, but there is no question in my mind practically everything will run on a GPU like processor in the future. The…

"GPUs are only good at _very_ specific workloads."

Let me detail you a completely specific workload citing my own personal experience over objective facts with citations

Oh and let me also take a swipe at Intel again without any verifiable evidence

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#57

Post by Dylan16807 »

deepnotderp wrote: post #44
jacquesm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The step from 14 to 10 nm is huge . Both from a technological perspective on the manufacturing side as well as on the effect it will have to the number of transistors on a die and the power consumption of those transistors. Remember that power consumption and the number of transistors are related to the surface area so there is a square factor in there. 14 nm ^2 = 196, 10 nm ^2 = 100, so that's almost a doubling of t…

Okay, so the node names are effectively useless at this point. They used to refer to gate length, but no longer, even for Intel. Oh, and Intel's 10nm will actually have lower performance than their 14nm. Besides, it matters not, the bottlenecks today are in memory and interconnects.

> Oh, and Intel's 10nm will actually have lower performance than their 14nm.

Less than 14++, sure, but 10+ and 10++ will fix that.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#58

Post by Skunkleton »

msh wrote: post #53
mappu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anandtech have great content, but their advertising can be... aggressive. I assume you have an adblocker on desktop but not on mobile?

They have fallen a long way since Adnan ran the site...

Adnan is the guy who may or may not have killed his girlfriend in the 90's. You are thinking Anand. As in AnandTech. And even without Mr. Shimpi AnandTech is still one of the best sources for in-depth reviews of hardware.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#59

Post by ktRolster »

deepnotderp wrote: post #44
jacquesm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The step from 14 to 10 nm is huge . Both from a technological perspective on the manufacturing side as well as on the effect it will have to the number of transistors on a die and the power consumption of those transistors. Remember that power consumption and the number of transistors are related to the surface area so there is a square factor in there. 14 nm ^2 = 196, 10 nm ^2 = 100, so that's almost a doubling of t…

Okay, so the node names are effectively useless at this point. They used to refer to gate length, but no longer, even for Intel. Oh, and Intel's 10nm will actually have lower performance than their 14nm. Besides, it matters not, the bottlenecks today are in memory and interconnects.

At some point, maybe we'll start seeing RAM put onto the CPU itself.

I mean, more than it already is (with cache).

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#60

Post by ktRolster »

iainmerrick wrote: post #48
zanny wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libreoffice has OpenCL acceleration for some spreadsheet operations. With the advent of NVME storage, and the potential bandwidth it yields, I would expect to see database systems emerging that can GPGPU accelerate operations on tables to be way, way faster than what a CPU can handle.

What on earth are people doing on spreadsheets that needs GPU acceleration??

Batch processing. Lots of rows.
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