>> I resigned to call attention to the serious harm our divided political climate is causing to critical issues... .. by performing a further politically divisive act. I can't believe corporate virtue signalling has become a thing now.
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Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
151–160 of 420 posts
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are there? I mean, I see lots of false equivalence arguments and (possibly fair, possibly not) criticisms of political violence from left-leaning groups. But surely no one is arguing "Nazis aren't bad" on HN?
>I see lots of false equivalence arguments and (possibly fair, possibly not) If they are fair then it's just equivalence, not false equivalence. I feel like this has become the new vogue term thrown around since Charlottesville happened, and it's seeing a lot of misuse. Most people don't even bother to explain why the equivalence is false, thus attempting to shut down the conversation in the manner of the fallacy fal…
>> I see lots of false equivalence arguments and (possibly fair, possibly not) criticisms of political violence from left-leaning groups
> If they are fair then it's just equivalence, not false equivalence.
I think you are misparsing my statement. The "and" separates two sub-statements:
1) I see lots of false equivalence arguments,
and, additionally
2) I see lots of (possibly fair, possibly not) criticisms of political violence from left-leaning groups
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#153This position probably had very little political influence. However, why not stay and use whatever influence you may have to make a difference? Is it just not possible anymore to stay and disagree?
That's probably what people thought when they joined. (I certainly would joined if I was in the same position.) Continually appeasing someone irrational isn't going to fix the underlying problems specific to Trump.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> moderates who dislike Trump from the start can fairly blame left-wing shenanigans, at least partly, for the rise of Trump What? The rise of Trump was entirely down to the GOP - for years - stoking both racial and anti-liberal resentment with only one goal - to dismantle anything Obama touched.
Which of those people I listed stoked racial resentment? Can you provide citations? And I think you're ignoring a lot of things the left has been up to. The IRS scandal was a big deal, for example.
> And I think you're ignoring a lot of things the left has been up to. The IRS scandal was a big deal, for example.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy
> The Republican majority on the House Oversight Committee issued a report, which concluded that although some liberal groups were selected for additional review, the scrutiny that these groups received did not amount to targeting when compared to the greater scrutiny received by conservative groups. The report was criticized by the committee's Democratic minority, which said that the report ignored evidence that the IRS used keywords to identify both liberal and conservative groups.
> In January 2014, the FBI told Fox News that its investigation had found no evidence so far warranting the filing of federal criminal charges in connection with the controversy, as it had not found any evidence of "enemy hunting", and that the investigation continued. On October 23, 2015, the Justice Department declared that no criminal charges would be filed.
Meanwhile: http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/346544-dreamhost-cla...
Classic misguided whataboutism. Fox News did it again.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Giving up on the administration is not a political win, it is damage control. I gave up on Trump in the winter of 2015/2016. I'm way ahead of you there. I'm just saying people have valid thoughts (polarization in general leads to t his) that might be considered premature. But if we're going to be evenhanded, angry left-wing people need to honor a cool off period for a while. Keep in mind that moderates who dislike…
If you gave up on Trump then that means that you at some point held him closer than you do today. I always thought he was a blow-hard and I'm terribly disappointed that someone like him can be elevated to any position of power. I really hoped that America was wiser than this. > Keep in mind that moderates who dislike Trump from the start can fairly blame left-wing shenanigans, at least partly, for the rise of Trump.…
I've moved from "he's a total idiot who is unwilling to distance himself from the most backwards views of some of his supporters" to "he's a total idiot who's actually causing even deeper polarization since people on the Left aren't able to acknowledge that there are moderates that see him or the 'context' differently to them without implicating themselves as Nazis, and nobody on the Right wants to admit that he's creating an even more unhealthy political situation which is going to hurt everybody".
> [...] then you're part of the problem. [...]
> If you want 'healthy dialogue' you're going to have
> to come to terms with inherent biases first.
You just said that somebody was 'purposefully skewing' as if they did not really believe what they said. This is textbook bad faith arguing. You could do with reading what everybody is saying and imagining that they actually honestly believe these things and then go from there.
My own two-cents are that left-wing violence and anger is partly to blame for both his rise and the deeper polarisation we are now seeing since it enabled the alt-right to play the victim and fight a war of optics [0]. However, it's not the only cause: a large component of what we're seeing is that Trump coming to power has emboldened the worst of the Right [1].
[0] Look at how they manage their image with propaganda, and their attempts to use the Left against itself: https://mobile.twitter.com/sebinsua/status/89716402244070195...
[1] https://mobile.twitter.com/bswud/status/747790921190744064
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#156This position probably had very little political influence. However, why not stay and use whatever influence you may have to make a difference? Is it just not possible anymore to stay and disagree?
I think people are leaving because the position has no political influence, and the cost of taking PR shrapnel from a disastrous Trump presidency is too high. These business leaders can be assumed to be in it for self-aggrandizing reasons, so if their profiles as business leaders don't increase from this council, and if Trump is toxic to any of their future political designs, there's no better choice than to leave.
I don't think people choose to leave these councils particularly because of an ideological red line. If the spoils were good they'd find a way to rationalize it. Such is all of business and politics.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fundamental bias here is not the media, but the definition of "left". If you transplanted CNN into France or Germany, their editorial position would be on the mainstream center-right. For example, I've noticed that a lot of Americans think of Angela Merkel as a leftist. But she's a right-wing conservative from a party called "Christian Democratic Union"! In a way, the American media has been successfully gerryman…
There's not enough space here to get into it in too much detail, but for historical reason, the American right isn't (*) the same thing as the European right. Hundreds of years ago, the U.S. was a constitutional republic with working federalism and a limited national government. Hundreds of years ago, Europe was a lot of things, but often there were monarchs and dictators. So things that seem rather moderate to a Eur…
So things that seem rather moderate to a European (nationalising some industry) is a brand new thing in the American context.
When was the last time an entire industry was nationalized in Europe? I can't even think of a post-WWII example off the top of my head. (I'm sure there are examples, considering the success of Communist parties in some West European countries in the decade after 1945.)
It's true that there are more state-owned corporations in Europe... But some of the largest American corporations are so intricately tied to government deals and lobbying that there's no practical difference. I'm thinking of Lockheed, etc.
Compare Airbus and Boeing. One started as a multinational state-owned consortium created by European governments; the other has always been a private company. But they've ended up in basically the same position -- public corporations propped up by deep government subsidies in various disguises.
American and European capitalism isn't very different at all. Individual liberties are essentially the same with some tweaks. We're much closer than many think.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#158Why, because Trump criticized the leftists thugs (ANTIFA, BLM) in addition to the neo-nazis?
Yes. The leftist thugs deserve criticism, and they should be prosecuted when they cause property damage or harm people. But they weren't the problem at Charlottesville. There, Nazis, the KKK and other White Supremacists marched to prove that their race was better than others. That deserves to be condemned in itself. They also ended up killing someone in what appears to be a deliberate act.
The nazis had the demonstration permit (not that one should be needed). BOTH sides were the problem, because BOTH sides were engaging in violence. That's exactly what Trump said. This country isn't a safe space; seems many want it like that.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#159"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -- Abraham Lincoln Pretty worrying to observe the polarization in the US where IMO both left and right are full of extremist views and moderates have no audible voice.
This is not about some general vague problem with "extremism" of which supposedly all sides are guilty. This is about the emergence of a right-wing terrorist movement which has already committed several attacks. When your first reaction to this is to to bring in some unspecified crimes of the left, then this calls into question whether you understand the seriousness of the situation. There is a real chance that real,…
Antifa is a terrorist organization.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#160What is the point in quitting? You just went from some voice to zero. This is just virtue-signaling and is non-productive.
He's still the CEO of a $60billion corporation. Hardly voiceless.