A note on programmer salaries • Hacker News Board

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#221

Post by taeric » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

micahbright wrote: post #217

taeric wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't glorified being a victim. Quite the contrary. I just refuse to glorify anything the exploits and relies on someone being a victim. That is, my question is what sick thought made it acceptable to take repression and holding down of full segments of a population under the guise of them individually not standing up for themselves acceptable? Seriously, the evidence is quite clear that this attitude is complete…

>Seriously, the evidence is quite clear that this attitude is complete nonsense and only works for people that have certain advantages already. Ahem... citation needed

I've been referencing the still existing pay gap between men and women. Same for minorities.

For this attitude to be accurate, the problem is simply that women and minorities are not educating themselves and/or are not "shopping themselves around." If you want me to cite studies showing that specifically is false, quite frankly I don't have time to dig around for that. You could find studies showing it is true.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#222

Post by aries1980 » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

mstade wrote: post #201

Swinx43 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but those are definitely not what counts as nice areas in London. I also doubt you would find something for £600 in some of those areas today.

I too doubted this, but I suppose it is possible , though the pickings are slim at best: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/map.html?locatio... Also note a lot of these would be likely £600+ since this doesn't show additional fees (estate agent, taxes etc.) Now, this may seem like an abundance of results – but a number of these listings are actually house shares, parking lots, garages etc. Maybe you'd be ok…

Dirt-low rents on Zoopla and Rightmove are usually baits. Call up the agency and ask them if you can see the flat. They will tell you something like “this flat has gone, but I have something similar”. Finding a flat in London usually takes a month.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#223

Post by emsy » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 11:11 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #76

emsy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not circular logic, it's excactly how it works. Someone offers you money for your time and if both parties find an agreement on how much that time is worth, they've determined a value that is acceptable for both parties. No one is forced to employ or be employed.

"No one is forced to employ or be employed" Pretty sure most people who live paycheck to paycheck would disagree.

They need to work to earn a living, but they are not forced to be employed if they think the wage is too low. That would be slavery. But I see the point that this degree of freedom poses a problem for work with a low entry barrier.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#224

Post by micahbright » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 12:50 AM UTC

taeric wrote: post #221

micahbright wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously, the evidence is quite clear that this attitude is complete nonsense and only works for people that have certain advantages already. Ahem... citation needed

I've been referencing the still existing pay gap between men and women. Same for minorities. For this attitude to be accurate, the problem is simply that women and minorities are not educating themselves and/or are not "shopping themselves around." If you want me to cite studies showing that specifically is false, quite frankly I don't have time to dig around for that. You could find studies showing it is true.

The still existing pay gap for men and women, when women make 105% of what men make for the same job title and experience?

You need to study more.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#225

Post by brepl » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 1:54 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #152

cerealbad wrote: post #75

if you are bad at negotiation you should hire someone to do it for you.

That is an interesting idea. I haven't heard of anyone doing that in the tech world.

Good recruiters do this for you.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#226

Post by taeric » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

micahbright wrote: post #224

taeric wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been referencing the still existing pay gap between men and women. Same for minorities. For this attitude to be accurate, the problem is simply that women and minorities are not educating themselves and/or are not "shopping themselves around." If you want me to cite studies showing that specifically is false, quite frankly I don't have time to dig around for that. You could find studies showing it is true.

The still existing pay gap for men and women, when women make 105% of what men make for the same job title and experience? You need to study more.

Sounds like you have a source. Because that is a rather bold claim.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#227

Post by taway_1212 » Mon, Aug 14, 2017, 7:24 AM UTC

mamon wrote: post #195

taway_1212 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, since, if you take a mortgage to buy a house in SF/SV, you may have as much discretionary income left as someone in say, Alabama, BUT you're slowly building a $1m+ asset (that you'll be able to sell once the mortgage is paid). So, $100k is only comparable to $65k in most of the rest of the country when you're renting.

Unless we have another housing bubble burst and your 1 million $ asset falls down to 400k

Arguably, you're still going to be better off when compared against $200k-$400k house in a "cheap" state.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#228

Post by AstralStorm » Mon, Aug 14, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

purple-again wrote: post #64

jacalata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so Steve jobs was worth $1/year.

Sigh. In what version of the world do you believe Steve Jobs ever went a year of making $1? Even if his tax return showed income of $1 for that year (it never did) the net worth of his assets increased significantly during the year and the value of that would be captured eventually.

Her got paid by stock dividend. Had a pretty important share in Apple Inc.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#229

Post by AstralStorm » Mon, Aug 14, 2017, 7:36 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #183

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #12

The salaries are much lower compared to the large sales contracts because the company is compensating you for uncertainty. If you stick with a company, you're guaranteed whatever your salary is even if the company doesn't make any sales. If they're doing really well in terms of sales and contracts, then they pocket the difference, but if they're not, you pocket the loss. I personally agree with the author that it's w…

Every contracting company I worked for, had me full-time on projects. If they didn't have work for everybody, they laid off. They covered their 'risk' that way. Its a hoax that they took 25% (or more) to cover 'risk. It was to cover their vacation home payments.

They were covering the risk of default (Or rate adjustment) on their loans. Whether said loans were necessary is another matter.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#230

Post by BrandoElFollito » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 8:22 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #140

Swinx43 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is definitely not "free" in Germany. In fact it is quite high compared to the UK. If you are a freelancer in Germany you will have a relatively large upfront cost compared to say freelancing in the UK. Bring on top of that the Germany tax rates and you will quickly be taking less home than in say the UK. Rents are also not as low as it previously was. It has steadily been rising and buying a place is also…

Yes, you have to pay more than in the UK and possibly France. But for most people, those that are relocating for a job, healthcare doesn't cost much.

For France it depends what is a cost to you. If you are salaried, some money is deducted from your salary (you do not have any influence on that). Then there is extra insurance (called mutuelle) which may also be compulsory.

Beside that healthcare is almost free. You may need to pay for some "comfort medicine" (view by the state me or less randomly) and you pay 1€ per visit to a doctor.

The serious stuff is free (actually the more serious, the more free), dental is covered by the outer insurance (the debs depends on your contact), same for glasses.

So France is good when it comes to serious illnesses, gets expensive when having children (plenty of non reinbursed sprays for nose and throat) or when you have serious dental work, especially implants.