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Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

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Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#361

Post by HillaryBriss »

penpapersw wrote: post #348
HillaryBriss wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even better: lie, cheat, steal, and hurt those who are ten steps ahead of you. they're the ones with all the money.

I'm sure there's got to be a way of getting ahead that doesn't involve lying, cheating, or stealing, from anyone, no matter how much they deserve it.

yeah, i have to agree.

but, if someone has already made the decision to lie cheat and steal, why target someone just one step above? it seems better to take from someone with a whole lot more than everyone else.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#362

Post by mercutio2 »

throwanem wrote: post #303
wutbrodo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm sure there are some people are responsible enough to never incur a finance charge from a credit card by always paying their monthly balance. I've never actually met one of those people. I used to say I was one of those people, but in reality if you had asked to look at my statement history I would have been embarrassed by how many times I ended up paying interest charges for things I probably shouldn't have pur…

> This is a really bizarre assertion: my bubble is such that I've literally never met someone (that I'm aware of, just as with your claim) who _doesn't_ pay their credit cards off in full each month. That's one hell of a bubble. Almost no one does this. Source: worked customer service for an issuer for 18 months, ~150 calls/day, saw a broad cross-section of the customer base, and it was a rare day in which I talked t…

We’re really trading off bubbles for bubbles here, aren’t we? It seems really unlikely customer service attracts a representative cross section.

I am also in the “don’t know (many) people who do anything other than autopay in their credit cards” bubble.

I’m aware that many people struggle with credit cards, but they’re not in my social circles.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#363

Post by mercutio2 »

kuschku wrote: post #286
morgante wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know when US people use their credit card? Every day. You know when Europeans use their credit card? When abroad. To me, that's just evidence of how backwards many Europeans are in their approach to credit cards. You seem to have an attitude that credit cards are inherently evil. They're just tools, which can be misused (and put you into debt) or used for maximum convenience (accruing rewards and protections al…

Credit cards always have a cost. You get 1.5% to 2% of your money back in rewards for a 3% fee. In Europe, fees are limited to far below that, and the European debit cards are limited to below 1% in fees. You don't get rewards from credit cards in that situation. In fact, credit cards always end up losing you money. Credit cards are the tragedy of the commons - if no one used them, everyone would profit. But as long…

  > In Europe, fees are limited to
  > far below that, and the 
  > European debit cards are
  > limited to below 1% in fees.
I have frequently seen this claim made (that European credit card fees are low), then when I go and investigate it, I discover the source is referring to Europeans limits on interchange fees, not the merchant fees which dominate the cost of accepting credit cards.

In the end, I always find the costs are broadly similar in the EU and the US.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#364

Post by [deleted] »

mercutio2 wrote: post #362
throwanem wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a really bizarre assertion: my bubble is such that I've literally never met someone (that I'm aware of, just as with your claim) who _doesn't_ pay their credit cards off in full each month. That's one hell of a bubble. Almost no one does this. Source: worked customer service for an issuer for 18 months, ~150 calls/day, saw a broad cross-section of the customer base, and it was a rare day in which I talked t…

We’re really trading off bubbles for bubbles here, aren’t we? It seems really unlikely customer service attracts a representative cross section. I am also in the “don’t know (many) people who do anything other than autopay in their credit cards” bubble. I’m aware that many people struggle with credit cards, but they’re not in my social circles.

[deleted]

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#365

Post by JauntTrooper »

morgante wrote: post #350
vertex-four wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less the availability of credit cards (they're highly available in a good many countries), it's more the assertion that if you're not using a credit card every day, there's something wrong with you. It's the fact that if you're not using a credit card in everyday purchases, you're losing the rewards and so essentially paying more for everything you buy - you're structurally punished for not participating. Debit…

People regularly assert that credit cards are factored into the cost of goods, but I posit that's mostly untrue. The cost of most things, especially "luxury" goods like restaurants, is set by the price the market will bear—not the cost of providing that good. Anecdotally, it's certainly not cheaper that equivalent goods and services are cheaper in Europe despite the lower credit card usage.

Right. The amount a producer can pass on to consumers via a higher price depends on the price elasticity of demand.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#366

Post by xyz451 »

penpapersw wrote: post #348
HillaryBriss wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even better: lie, cheat, steal, and hurt those who are ten steps ahead of you. they're the ones with all the money.

I'm sure there's got to be a way of getting ahead that doesn't involve lying, cheating, or stealing, from anyone, no matter how much they deserve it.

When you figure out what that is let me know.

Please do not mention getting lucky

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#367

Post by xyz451 »

koonsolo wrote: post #74
unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

The whole credit card system in US is made to rip off "stupid" people, extremely so. Nobody writes about that, probably because everyone from US thinks it's normal, and nobody from the rest of the world knows about it. But that system is made to screw all the people who are not good at personal finances.

I bet a lot of the credit card debt eventually gets written off. I heard a statistic a few years back 05/2014. Essentially 1/4 credit card debtors had more on credit then they had in the bank.

Those levels of debt are unsustainable on a macro level. Some bank somewhere won't get paid. Then we'll have 2008 all over again.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#368

Post by xyz451 »

koonsolo wrote: post #74
unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

The whole credit card system in US is made to rip off "stupid" people, extremely so. Nobody writes about that, probably because everyone from US thinks it's normal, and nobody from the rest of the world knows about it. But that system is made to screw all the people who are not good at personal finances.

I bet a lot of the credit card debt eventually gets written off. I heard a statistic a few years back 05/2014. Essentially 1/4 credit card debtors had more on credit then they had in the bank.

Those levels of debt are unsustainable on a macro level. Some bank somewhere won't get paid. Then we'll have 2008 all over again.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#369

Post by xyz451 »

koonsolo wrote: post #74
unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

The whole credit card system in US is made to rip off "stupid" people, extremely so. Nobody writes about that, probably because everyone from US thinks it's normal, and nobody from the rest of the world knows about it. But that system is made to screw all the people who are not good at personal finances.

I bet a lot of the credit card debt eventually gets written off. I heard a statistic a few years back 05/2014. Essentially 1/4 credit card debtors had more on credit then they had in the bank.

Those levels of debt are unsustainable on a macro level. Some bank somewhere won't get paid. Then we'll have 2008 all over again.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#370

Post by wutbrodo »

throwanem wrote: post #303
wutbrodo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm sure there are some people are responsible enough to never incur a finance charge from a credit card by always paying their monthly balance. I've never actually met one of those people. I used to say I was one of those people, but in reality if you had asked to look at my statement history I would have been embarrassed by how many times I ended up paying interest charges for things I probably shouldn't have pur…

> This is a really bizarre assertion: my bubble is such that I've literally never met someone (that I'm aware of, just as with your claim) who _doesn't_ pay their credit cards off in full each month. That's one hell of a bubble. Almost no one does this. Source: worked customer service for an issuer for 18 months, ~150 calls/day, saw a broad cross-section of the customer base, and it was a rare day in which I talked t…

> That's one hell of a bubble. Almost no one does this. Source: worked customer service for an issuer for 18 months, ~150 calls/day, saw a broad cross-section of the customer base, and it was a rare day in which I talked to a monthly PIF.

Yea... That's why I went out of my way to call it a bubble. The point of mentioning my bubble was that "I've never met anyone who doesn't carry a cc balance" isn't a sound basis for to making a claim about all credit card usage the way the parent comment was.

> even if you're in the former category, it's still a hell of a risk to take, because if anything happens that negatively affects your liquidity in a significant way, you're suddenly a lot more screwed than you would be if you hadn't been using credit the way you were.

I'm pretty sure you're messing up your math here. How could the addition of liquidity (plus deferment of payment by 30+ days) at zero cost possibly be making me more screwed, in the event of a serious liquidity crunch?

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