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As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

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Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#221

Post by dsfjksdf »

mcv wrote: post #212
dsfjksdf wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that, it is that women have the greater bargaining chip in the relationship. They have the womb for creating babies, so they can make more demands. Also, they make the greater investment into kids (at first, at least, over time it can change), which also warrants "compensation".

I'm not sure what they're supposed to be bargaining about in your view. Have you ever been in a long term relationship? Because what you're describing does not sound like a healthy relationship.

Do you have kids? Who got to stay home with the kids? Who got to work only part time when the kids grew older? Who pays the rent? That sort of thing.

And, as always: on average...

If you don't see it, I don't think I can convince you. There is much to learn about how the world turns.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#222

Post by needlessly2 »

nikdaheratik wrote: post #219
needlessly2 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of disagree with the gaming part. I'm almost sure that most hardcore gamers actually never become part of the CS/SWE crowd because of video game addiction. Gaming and software development are two very different domains. Hardcore gamers usually are not motivated, accomplish very little, and lack in career development.

I think it depends on your definition of "hardcore", but there are alot of good software people who game well above average even if it is below the level many would consider "obsessive". The best computer games have alot in common with software design as far as thinking about how a system works, planning for edge cases that could lead to problems/opportunities, and developing the patience to find which strategies pay…

This a little bit of overlap, but I don't think there's significant overlap between gamers and software developers.

Writing code and playing a video are two very different experiences. Sure, you'll need to test the game, but testing games is not a fun time contrary to popular belief. And more important, the vast majority of software developers do not actually work in the video game industry. Most either work in systems development or make CRUD apps.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#223

Post by ubernostrum »

qb45 wrote: post #186
gyardley wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Coding in your spare time' isn't quite as extreme as having no life outside of tech. Hey, I code a bit in my spare time too, so let me clarify. It's the people who don't do anything else but code that I've, in my experience, had real issues with - they might make great computer scientists, but as a group they're not very good in a team of software developers. Arrogance, problems cooperating with others, excessive ni…

> much more diverse tech industry and a much more functional one. As a Darwinist of sorts, I'm afraid that if this actually were true, we would be seeing some serious disruption of those nerds by much more functional diverse teams. The cat's been of the bag for so many years that somebody ought to have exploited it by now. But so far, it seems that one poster child example of a company which made tons of money bringi…

The cat's been of the bag for so many years that somebody ought to have exploited it by now.

I'd like to send you over here: http://danluu.com/tech-discrimination/

And to the real-world examples of the market needing quite a long time to correct for sufficiently strong biases in the culture.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#224

Post by dsfjksdf »

slededit wrote: post #214
dsfjksdf wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law and medicine are high status jobs, with a lot of people interactions. Yes, programmers have meetings. Not the same level of interaction as medicine, by a long stretch. There are many TV shows glorifying medicine and law. How many TV shows glorify the job of a programmer? How would you make a TV show glorifying the job of a programmer?

Silicon Valley, Halt & Catch Fire, Scorpion, Mr. Robot. Lots of TV shows center around programmers. As with doctor shows however they don't focus on the medicine but the interactions of the people.

Hadn't heard of Halt & Catch Fire and Scorpion, will check them out. Mr Robot seems to reinforce the stereotype of social outcast computer kids, definitely not glamorous. I doubt SV glamorizes the tech world, but I haven't seen it yet. Compare that to the typical doctor or lawyer series, where heroes save lives.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#225

Post by vings »

sudosteph wrote: post #200
vings wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to clarify some things in my post: I intentionally worked on the basis of stereotypes or generalisations. If 60% of group A wants prefers X over Y while only 40% of group B prefers X over Y, it's accurate to speak in general terms, even if there are many individual exceptions. Any discussion of women in technology _in general_, as opposed to individual women in tech, inherently relies on the ability to make…

> I don't think women who are not engineers really envy those who spend their time this way Again, you are presuming to know what the majority of women feel. Your personal preference for "emotionally fulfilling" work is just that, personal preference. As for the study you linked, it's impossible to seperate the influence of gendered socialization and inequal exposure to potential interests from "biological" sources a…

I really appreciate your perspective, and agree that I could grow in my empathy for the harmful aspects of female socialisation. It's admittedly hard for me to not view it as butterflies, rainbows and dance classes, but that's just the "grass is greener" effect from my own experience. (I also had no sisters and didn't observe it directly in my own family.) I support everyone liberating themselves in the way that they need to.

I can totally agree that all of the studies and data that we have are taken from within the culture itself, and so it's pretty much impossible to see the biology through the culture. I often notice myself that biological explanations are used by dominant groups in order to reduce their responsibility, even if they may not be the most scientifically accurate ways of looking at things.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#226

Post by gthtjtkt »

dang wrote: post #178
gthtjtkt wrote: post #8

Another very reasonable article on the topic. I'm sure it will soon be [flagged] just like the other one since it doesn't support the "Damore is an ignorant, sexist pig" narrative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14973059

Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments? Bad as these trainwreck threads are, doing that makes them worse.

The only trainwreck here is HN, which makes no attempt to prevent ideology-based flagging.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#227

Post by mcv »

dsfjksdf wrote: post #221
mcv wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what they're supposed to be bargaining about in your view. Have you ever been in a long term relationship? Because what you're describing does not sound like a healthy relationship.

Do you have kids? Who got to stay home with the kids? Who got to work only part time when the kids grew older? Who pays the rent? That sort of thing. And, as always: on average... If you don't see it, I don't think I can convince you. There is much to learn about how the world turns.

I have kids, yes. We take care of them together. We both work 4 days a week. She pays the mortgage, I pay childcare.

In a healthy relationship, this is stuff you work out together, not through demands and womb-based bargaining chips.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#228

Post by [deleted] »

dsfjksdf wrote: post #221
mcv wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what they're supposed to be bargaining about in your view. Have you ever been in a long term relationship? Because what you're describing does not sound like a healthy relationship.

Do you have kids? Who got to stay home with the kids? Who got to work only part time when the kids grew older? Who pays the rent? That sort of thing. And, as always: on average... If you don't see it, I don't think I can convince you. There is much to learn about how the world turns.

[deleted]
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