Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#141

Post by bartread » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #102

jboggan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not easy to uproot and move from an economically depressed area to an active metropolis. I've done it (Athens, GA to San Francisco in late 2012) and it was incredibly expensive and involved a large amount of personal credit use, cash assistance from family, and time. It was a huge stretch at the time for me to move across the country and break into a new industry, and I did it as a single man, willing and…

What I don't understand is why people don't use the time they have in the low cost-of-living area to develop the skills (via the Internet) that would make them attractive to employers in big cities? That was my approach - I lived at home with my parents after graduation, basically did nothing but program (both for work and after work), and after 3 years Google came knocking and paid for my move out to Silicon Valley.…

"That was my approach - I lived at home with my parents after graduation"

There's your answer: not everyone can, or wants, to do that. People have families, kids, second jobs already (to pay the bills they need to pay right now, or else bad consequences), maybe don't get on with their parents that well, or have absent parents, and are generally time poor.

Google doesn't come calling for everyone: not everyone has the aptitude, not everyone is smart enough no matter how hard they work. That might suck, but it's unfortunately true.

Or at least so I'd thought: the fact that you were apparently smart enough to get a job at Google yet still managed to overlook these fundamentals may have sown a few seeds of doubt in my mind.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#142

Post by SamBoogieNYC » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #126

bloomca wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you have a survivor's bias here – I have kind of the same track, I developed my initial skills while living with parents, being single and without having too much social interactions, so I was able to dedicate incredible amount of time to all this stuff. But this is not always the case. Very often when you realize that you need to change something, you already work, and you have some obligations, so you hav…

You may be right - I think about what I'd need to do to switch careers now, at 36, and it's a lot harder than when I was 19. Luckily I have a bit of a cushion, which was built up over those years as a computer programmer, so I wouldn't go homeless or anything while retraining. Many other people are not so lucky. I wonder what sort of education would be necessary to bring that opportunity to everyone, though. I was lu…

Basic Civics, Finance & Economy should definitely be required courses in HS. When I talk to older people they generally tell me they had these classes, and are surprised they're no longer commonly taught. It's almost as if, by design?

IMO a lot of people were misled by marketing i.e "get a college degree, everything will be fine". The advance of technology (amongst other things) has majorly disrupted that model. I'm not an economist but the rest of the world has gotten more competitive as well, beyond just manufacturing. The U.S public K-12 education system is a major long-term liability IMO.

To your point about teaching yourself skills and getting hired - good on you that you did this but it's extremely difficult - the average person couldn't do this. That's even assuming that they saw out of their bubble and became aware that this was an option, which isn't as obvious as it might seem.

Also, not everyone has the ability nor desire to be a programmer - which is one of the few jobs I observed where if you have the skills, you have A LOT of leverage.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#143

Post by nnd » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

slackingoff2017 wrote: post #75

microcolonel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to some people getting played by the system surely isn't to play everyone even more by that same system. I figure UBI will look like it's succeeding for ~10-20 years, then we'll see what the real impact of it is (as people grow up with it). There's also little consensus on how comfortable the basic income should be; I get the impression that if it is too comfortable, you'd be a fool to work, if it's too…

UBI is welfare with a different name. The results will be the same. Some people will sit on their asses and never work a single day but the majority of the population would keep working. The extra money would become meaningless because prices would adjust to accommodate it. We have to keep in mind that you can't just create money and hand it out and make everyone rich. If everyone had 10x as much money prices would e…

UBI is not welfare, it's by definition ubiquitous and unconditional. Welfare programs can and should exist in addition to UBI.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#144

Post by nnd » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

darod wrote: post #81

bsaunder wrote: post #51

This is the use case for universal basic income. Its largely not their fault for their current economic situation. They played by the rules. They worked hard. If we could only remove the "necessity" of a job and the puritan shame of unemployment to live a moderate life of meager means. People should be encouraged to contribute to society not to simply "get a job".

I think UBI would be unsustainable without additional investments in education. If you are going to be taking public monies, that time should be used to educate oneself or provide some form of public service.

In this case that won't be UBI, but rather a scholarship grant.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#145

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:01 PM UTC

rogerthis wrote: post #120

unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

Join this to the hedonism and nihilism of post-war generations and you have the Steve Bannon's Generation Zero documentary.

[deleted]

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#146

Post by Domenic_S » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:04 PM UTC

osteele wrote: post #140

koonsolo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole credit card system in US is made to rip off "stupid" people, extremely so. Nobody writes about that, probably because everyone from US thinks it's normal, and nobody from the rest of the world knows about it. But that system is made to screw all the people who are not good at personal finances.

Maybe. Or maybe (many) poor people are acting rationally given their economic circumstances. See ["Reframing the Debate about Payday Lending"]( http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2015/10/reframi... ) (a pop summary of ["Interest rate caps and implicit collusion: the case of payday lending"]( http://www.inderscience.com/info/inarticle.php?artid=58089 ), DeYoung & Phillips), or other articles linked [this epi…

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are:

- Poor people are stupid

- Poor people are bad at personal finance

- More/better education (government) will help

Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too?

Just a shocking lack of empathy here.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#147

Post by jakobegger » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:04 PM UTC

wott wrote: post #119

sidlls wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people in tech, especially in the Bay Area, have never known anything but a quite comfortable middle class (or better) life. They're very much disconnected ("in a bubble") from what it's like to live a lower-class (which has an upper income much higher than the poverty level) life in this country. The disconnect between high-paid techies and the lower-class is in many respects far greater than between the b…

No matter how big money people make and how comfortable their way of life is, they always think themselves as lower-middle-class and claim they are on the verge of financial difficulties.

Do they?

I feel like I can afford whatever I want, and I don’t think I make more money than most people on HN.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#148

Post by k__ » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:08 PM UTC

which is good,so there are more people to sell to.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#149

Post by imesh » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:09 PM UTC

d3ad1ysp0rk wrote: post #29

maxxxxx wrote: post #4

He should rename this to "Working outside the millionaire bubble". Plenty of people in tech feel the squeeze too. What it comes down to is that a lot of people with money have lost touch with the rest.

People in tech rarely feel the squeeze to the degree that those in service / manufacturing industries do.

Certainly, before I had a tech job none of my service level jobs left me with any money in the bank, if I got fired I had no money period. Now if I lose my job I have a few months.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#150

Post by koonsolo » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 8:10 PM UTC

losteric wrote: post #96

koonsolo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole credit card system in US is made to rip off "stupid" people, extremely so. Nobody writes about that, probably because everyone from US thinks it's normal, and nobody from the rest of the world knows about it. But that system is made to screw all the people who are not good at personal finances.

The root cause of most American problems is poor public education. We're still over-emphasizing passing grades over effectively growing new American citizens... Personal finance is rarely offered and never mandatory, yet we collectively bare the burden of financial ignorance. The same applies to other subjects like statistics or civics.

I think you totally mis the point. It's not about education, it's about a system where you can't opt out of in US.

What is your credit score? If you are from US, you probably know. If you are from somewhere else, you are probably staring at your screen saying "what???".

Shops giving out their own credit cards... crazy.