191–200 of 219 posts
Wow, that was not even close either. And it only takes it two weeks to reach that level of play? OpenAI should create a team of five (as they said they would) and let it play in the qualifiers next year.
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How does having a bot succeed cause appeal to be lost? First you're suggesting that the strategy will be "found" and never beaten (no room for improvement, not even in hero selection). Secondly.. Chess & Go have been around for thousands of years and they still are played en masse daily.
> How does having a bot succeed cause appeal to be lost? You might think not beating bots is OK. Not for me and many people have been involved in competitive scene. The moment machine beats human, a large part of the competition is gone. The essence is that you want to be the best. But if all you can do is to beat some other inferior opponents, what's the point? > Secondly.. Chess & Go have been around for thousands…
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Side question: if we consider a team of 5 bots, would they need to communicate?
If you wanted them to play "within the rules", they would need some way to communicate via the game.. Text chat would make the most sense since adding in TTS / STT would seem unnecessary.. They could even communicate in some kind of shorthand language that only the bots understand..
It is so weird reading all these comments. Almost half of them start out as "it's impressive.. but". Is it human nature or are HN commenters just so sceptical/negative of all the new tech? One of the OpenAI guys mentioned that they could potentially use the same technique in real life applications like surgery. Surgery is not "just" run on a computer it has a physical component too. Is that really the next step or wa…
For me it makes as much sense as comparing someone sewing pieces of clothes together with someone pulling a zipper. Did people also have races against cars all the time? Is anyone getting excited over some plastic not changing texture when submerged in water for days or even years, while humans get elephant skin rather quickly? I do find all of that highly interesting, but it's more a morbid curiosity than being amazed.
> One of the OpenAI guys mentioned that they could potentially use the same technique in real life applications like surgery.
Oh yeah, it will all be for benefiting the elderly and the poor, I'm sure. At some point, ever around the corner. It won't benefit the people who need to have surgery in the first place because the so called civilized world can't even deal with warmongers and power mad cops, can't reign in sheer greed and sociopathy -- but nobody who has excuses today will still have them when faced with fully automatic enforcement systems.
Generally, at least allow for the possibility that someone who is not utterly fascinated by something you like might not be less curious and progressive than you, but the opposite, and that what you think is the bigger picture being a fraction of what they see. At least until you actually asked the people whose comments you don't like.
Saw this live and as someone that's played Dota for many years, it's not as impressive as people make it out to be. A Shadowfiend 1v1 is primarily a test of mechanical skill and not judgment. A similar comparison is if a Counter-Strike or Quake bot would instantly snap to your head getting a headshot. Like, yeah, cool I guess, and it would beat 100% of human players 100% of the time, but it's not even remotely as imp…
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A big hero pool you can only pick one of each from is probably easier to balance than something like an RTS where there are a fixed set of units for just a few alternate races and the players typically choose between them once at the start of their career. You have to consider how every single one of them interacts with all of the others and even less serious imbalances will be present in the games all the times for…
I don't think that's true at all, since you have to consider how each team of 5 heroes combines and synergises. That's a far larger part of balance than individual heroes. Players also play roles, but typically play more than a handful of heroes and so those combinations are in reality also very numerous. On top of that, you then have items which change how heroes can play and, more recently, talent trees which can s…
Each composition doesn't have to be perfectly balanced against every other either and the system of picks and bans helps.
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I expect your conjecture is correct. That's the whole point of deep learning -- there are many layers that automate what would otherwise be human feature extraction.
The magic here doesn't come solely from deep learning, but also from having access to massive simulation. Simulation can make an almost average human-level deep neural net become better than the best human. It happened for Go as well, where AlphaGo learned by self playing millions of games. I think there is a deep link between simulation and AGI. An AGI would need to be able to imagine how people and objects would ac…
We run through conversations, physical events / muscle memory, are constantly predicting the world around us - we often don't even remember moving through the environment on regular routes unless something unusual disturbs our running predictions.
It's super interesting to see some of that come through, sure in a more 'brute force' manner, but we randomly brute force bumped through the world as children too, until we pruned our selection trees.
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Without even getting into misconceptions and inaccuracies here, the following quotes illustrate "the moving goalposts of AI": The almost-metaphysical "mystique" that many attribute (perhaps subconsciously) to human intelligence vs machine intelligence: > AI techniques, which are good at learning what is "in the data" but have not yet been shown to be capable of thinking outside the box > AIs would be highly vulnerabl…
Gaming skill is often divided into mechanical skill and decision making. 1v1 like this is dominated heavily by mechanical skill (frame-perfect last hits/denies, the absurd creep block, etc). Generally, it's the sort of thing you can "download skill" in (cheat at) because computers are very good at it. Decision making is how quake pros can beat aimbotters, and starts to become very important in 5v5 DotA, particularly…
wonder, against this type of AI, if it's even possible to land something like meat hook or sacred arrow?
on the note of good decision making, maybe even a failed hook could be enough to exploit the bot into death. for instance, hero X chases bot back toward tower. hook comes in predicting the bots path. bot would have to either walk into the hook or walk back into the hero chasing it.