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A note on programmer salaries

stephaniehurlburt.com

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Re: A note on programmer salaries

#171

Post by TheArcane »

Bootvis wrote: post #156
kutkloon7 wrote: post #155

Salaries in the US seem really high compared to those in the Netherlands. I have 2 bachelor and 2 master degrees in STEM. I made €10/hour (about $12) giving private math and programming lessons, while I earn roughly €13/hour (about $15) at my entry level job (after tax deduction). I would expect my salary to grow at my current job. I also feel that I would have been hired at my current job if I just had my bachelor d…

Going on only those credentials you should be able to get a better paid job, also in the Netherlands (I'm Dutch).

What would good salaries be for an experienced resarch engineer in software doing specialized work in the Netherlands?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#172

Post by [deleted] »

devdad wrote: post #61

> "That feeling that I am actually the one making this work, and I'm also perfectly capable of talking with people and selling it" The last part of this sentence is what is important. I'm a decent programmer, having built a few apps both for web and phones. My colleague is a better programmer. We're getting tons of work (by me selling) and outsourcing lots of it to other programmers we know, because they can't sell.…

[deleted]

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#173

Post by prodtorok »

Where is a good site to calculate worth? I've been using Glassdoor, but this article and thread make me feel skeptical.

I thought I've done well in my negotiating (in D.C.): 80k -> 90k (9m) -> 95k (12m) -> 105k base (1y7m, new job) -> present 2y2m later.

I now feel as if Ive shorted myself. I guess I shouldn't compare to Glassdoor? My salary is above the median listed at Glassdoor. The article makes me feel under-valued. The numbers I see just seem crazy. At the same time, I know my talent is greater than that of most "seniors" I work with, have led teams, and my product engineering has been fast and "impressive".

My boss assured me that Im on the fast track to promotion, but now I feel as if after 1y at my new company, I must request a significant raise, like 20%, or move on again.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#174

Post by neoberg »

Swinx43 wrote: post #97
kayoone wrote: post #60

By looking at her Linkedin, it is easy to see what companies she is talking about, some big names up there. I think her viewpoint is a bit naive though. Of course a company will pay market rate in a european city if that is what it takes to be competitive. The fact that they pay their US employees more might create tensions inside the company but in the end is just down to the fact that the market there is completely…

Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.

Come to Sofia. No, I'm serious. Of course Bulgaria is not the best country in Europe but it's pretty great for software devs. Salaries for Sr. Devs are around 3000-3500 euro band -which is more than the president here- and cost of living is the half of the Berlin. Also, the city has a vibrant software scene.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#175

Post by 21 »

neoberg wrote: post #174
Swinx43 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.

Come to Sofia. No, I'm serious. Of course Bulgaria is not the best country in Europe but it's pretty great for software devs. Salaries for Sr. Devs are around 3000-3500 euro band -which is more than the president here- and cost of living is the half of the Berlin. Also, the city has a vibrant software scene.

Is criminality under control now?

Some years ago I remember stories about assasinations, guns & stuff.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#176

Post by zerr »

mstade wrote: post #167
zerr wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad thing in Berlin is that 60-70K is really a ceiling, if you want to stay in non-managerial engineering, and that amount is not something unrealistic for engineers living in cheaper parts of the world working remotely, so there is not much incentive to move to Berlin. Btw, why do you find London much expensive? I mean, you can rent (or mortgage) a decent apartment in the nice district for ~600 GBP per month. An…

No way you find a nice place to live in London for £600, especially not a place of your own. If anything, you might find a room somewhere, but it's probably not going to be nice and it's likely not even going to be in London. If you commute by long distance rail for at least an hour, an hour and a half maybe, to some small town way outside of London maybe you'll find something at that cost – but surely not in London…

I'm talking more about Ilford, Barking, Wembley, etc...

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#177

Post by 21 »

bronz wrote: post #100

i think programmers and a lot of other people get paid way too much. i used to wash dishes and the other guy who washed dishes, who worked right next to me, was an immigrant. he worked 12 hours a day every single solitary day. without him, the restaurant would grind to a halt. so, like stephanie, he was a huge part of all the money that was made. and yet, he gets paid less than minimum wage. he works harder than anyo…

It's just a supply/demand thing.

One guy which I knew, a movie FX guy (Maya, After Effects, ...) moved to London and washed dishes for a few months before getting a gig in his field.

And I've met quite a few more people in London doing very low paid jobs.

They are paid so low because you can easily find someone willing to do it for even less.

I'm not saying that this is fair, it's just how it is.

Basic income, which is inevitable, will fix most of this, as in nobody will need to work just to make a living.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#178

Post by kayoone »

Swinx43 wrote: post #148
kayoone wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Berlin, i make close to 70k which is decent here for senior devs without management responsibility i guess and that amounts to ~3300 after taxes, health insurance etc. I could save more by getting a private health insurance, but that has its downsides too. The main reason why this works is that Berlin is still really cheap compared to London but even compared to Hamburg or Munich. Rents are getting up though, sti…

Fantastic, thank you very much for replying. It is true that Berlin is much better than London at that salary range. The average London tech job really doesn't pay enough to have as nice a life in London as you can have in Berlin for the same money. I would be very interested to hear your view on how the contracting market is in Berlin.

There are a lot of contracting gigs and it should be easy to find stuff if you are experienced in web frontend, backend or mobile development. Hourly rates go from 45-80 EUR/h for "normal" dev work depending on your experience and can be quite a bit higher for specialized stuff like Data science/Machine Learning. Hope that helps, let me know if you have more questions.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#179

Post by jacalata »

majewsky wrote: post #147
purple-again wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your value to society is the value of your work which in everyone else's context is your value. No one cares if your apartment is clean which is why no one pays you to clean your apartment.

So no one cares if I let my parents rot to death once they cannot take care of themselves anymore. Got it.

Or if you drop your kids off at school and never come back for them. Nobody is paying you to look after them, right?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#180

Post by majewsky »

ajdlinux wrote: post #160
majewsky wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how they're going to negotiate their way up to being in the global 0.5% Reality check: Most of us are already in the top 0.5% of the global income distribution, even with a relatively meager salary like 30k or 40k. You can check for yourself at http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Yeah, I didn't check before I made up that number - I've seen that site before, and apparently I'm already in the top 0.4%. Maybe add another zero in there...

Don't worry, I didn't mean to lecture, just to create some awareness.
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