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Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

latimes.com

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Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#261

Post by dragonwriter »

msla wrote: post #221
Clubber wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't be racially diverse if they are white. If you mean educationally diverse, you're just trolling.

So White people are all one race, now? Germans and Slavs and Scandinavians and Italians are all the same? When did that happen?

> So White people are all one race, now?

Always have been, pretty much since the classic idea of defined “races” was formed, in early race models—whether in two-race (Caucadoid/Mongoloid), three race (adding Negroid), or five-race (white, yellow, brown, black, and red) models—whites were, alone or with some others, one race.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#262

Post by yeukhon »

jacalata wrote: post #231
kfriede wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And sticking them in a 101 level class when they really should be in remedial can end up having taking the same amount of time if that student now needs to take the class twice (or more) to pass.

Except that they are now allowed to take other classes at the same time, which was previously disallowed.

Well, if those classes don't require the Math/English level they needed, then that makes sense.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#263

Post by jonbarker »

jonbarker wrote: post #171
davidreiss wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying college students should be able to pass remedial math and english tests isn't elitism. If you can't pass a basic remedial test in basic math and basic english how are you going to take college level courses? Where are you getting elitism from? Having some basic minimum standards isn't elitism. It's having standards.

It's elitism when you realize being born into the wrong school district and/or with the wrong parents may increase your chances of not being able to acquire those basic skills.

My comment above had two points for a while, then for some reason was voted down and now has zero points. So here's an appeal to authority: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/rich-kids-stay-rich-poo...

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#264

Post by danschumann »

kazen44 wrote: post #238
danschumann wrote: post #190

It seems like they just want EVERYONE to go to college, even if they go $100k into debt to study German Polka History. They should give fewer student loans, or make them bankruptable, and make sure students actually will be financially benefited within 10 years. There is a surplus of students, which technically means they can give inferior education. If there were a shortage of students, universities would need to up…

what is a far larger problem is the fact that employers basically demand college and university degrees for jobs which require neither. I am not american, but i wonder why the US seems to lack a tiered tertiary education system? In the netherlands for example, we have different levels of tertiary education going all the way from trade school to polytechnical education to research universities. This systems seems to c…

I once applied for a job at a university to develop backend systems. They rejected me immediately because I didn't have higher education, then they called me 2 months later, when someone actually read my resume and saw my skills.

I will tell everyone that skills, recent projects, and cool hobbies will prove you are qualified way more than a degree!

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#265

Post by kashkhan »

0x10101 wrote: post #165
kashkhan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

college and other education should be about adding learning to the recipients and not about measurement. People should learn things as they want, and not be required to meet arbitrary standards and degrees to obtain societal benefits. A hundred years ago ~1% of the people went to college. Now it's more than 50%. The societal function of college has changed.

"People should learn things as they want, and not be required to meet arbitrary standards and degrees to obtain societal benefits." Then don't ask me to pay for you to do so. Check some books out of the library. People are paying a lot of money to universities in exchange get a better life for themselves. If it doesn't improve their skills in any measurable way, we should try something else.

thats ok. we are in a transitional phase. Most of what you learn in college goes to waste anyway.

College proves that you can start something and finish it. Like you can do engineering, but even graduates of MIT need years in industry to learn the actual skills needed for their jobs.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#266

Post by kashkhan »

jonbarker wrote: post #172
kashkhan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

college and other education should be about adding learning to the recipients and not about measurement. People should learn things as they want, and not be required to meet arbitrary standards and degrees to obtain societal benefits. A hundred years ago ~1% of the people went to college. Now it's more than 50%. The societal function of college has changed.

In the industrial manufacturing based economy people could get good jobs without basic undergraduate 'skills'. Now in the knowledge economy, they can't.

yes, and that's why they should go to college and learn those skills.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#267

Post by kashkhan »

xupybd wrote: post #117
kashkhan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

college and other education should be about adding learning to the recipients and not about measurement. People should learn things as they want, and not be required to meet arbitrary standards and degrees to obtain societal benefits. A hundred years ago ~1% of the people went to college. Now it's more than 50%. The societal function of college has changed.

Measurement is a huge value add. It's proof to employers that you know the basics. It's something that you can use to get a job. Learning for the sake of learning is great and all but you also have to put food on the table.

how many employers give job offers based on GPA?

GPA or any other grades is bad proxy for actual ability and employability.

Humans are good at studying for evaluations and measurements. But colleges that teach for that are a waste of time.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#268

Post by Clubber »

msla wrote: post #259
Clubber wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's Caucasian. There is a difference between race and country of origin. I mean wow.

Huh. Hasn't always been. Look up the history of race sometime. Race is politics and not biology. I mean wow.

Are you saying Germans and Slavs and Italians aren't the same race, i.e. Caucasian? That's what you were stating. I understand the origins of race, but you implied they weren't the same race.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#269

Post by the_d00d »

indigochill wrote: post #248
kaitai wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another factor: I know several people who went into math because it could not be politicized. There was not a party line to toe.

They should hear about the Pythagoreans' discovery of irrational numbers (in which the discoverer is said to have been drowned at sea for undermining their belief that only positive ratios could exist): https://brilliant.org/discussions/thread/discovery-of-irrati...

Interesting point, but if I remember correctly it was religious zeal rather than political.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#270

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

olegkikin wrote: post #232
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PwC, E&Y and others dropped university requirement because they don't tell anything about people. This is a downward spiral. Universities get less picky, A inflation, more money for universities but devaluing degrees. Companies catch on and drop the requirement for degrees. "Our own internal research of over 400 graduates found that screening students based on academic performance alone was too blunt an approach to r…

Companies will not drop the requirement for degrees, they will simply want the degrees from the universities/colleges that don't engage in this nonsense.

No, they have dropped the requirement, see the source.
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