New York Times once again demonstrates its alt-right philosophy by assuming a there are merely two gender ( https://apath.org/63-genders/ ), _in the first sentence_.
[deleted]
Google’s War Over the Sexes
41–50 of 91 posts
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you read the thing? You have the greatest gender balance in comp sci in the least egalitarian societies. There's a body of scientific literature you could consult if you wanted the diversity you claim to want.
But that is precisely what I said! Developing countries are egalitarian out of necessity. For them economic emancipation is principally important, and just by accident lifts women and minorities up. We have grown a little too soft it seems. Our (western) over-emphasis of freedom of choice is actually segregating us. We're giving in to our worst instincts and then claim that they are biological facts that we cannot es…
> Developing countries are egalitarian
Except they are not, by pretty much all measures. It's just that people are less free to choose what they want to do.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you read the thing? You have the greatest gender balance in comp sci in the least egalitarian societies. There's a body of scientific literature you could consult if you wanted the diversity you claim to want.
But that is precisely what I said! Developing countries are egalitarian out of necessity. For them economic emancipation is principally important, and just by accident lifts women and minorities up. We have grown a little too soft it seems. Our (western) over-emphasis of freedom of choice is actually segregating us. We're giving in to our worst instincts and then claim that they are biological facts that we cannot es…
"Developing countries are egalitarian"
I have to wonder what you think is meant by the words egalitarian and developing.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#44At last a balanced story on the topic. The discussions online on this topic have been mind numbing - quoting out of context, ad hominem attacks, every bad form of arguments listed in PG's essay[1]. Twitter is the worst. Almost makes me want to build a better debating platform. [1] - http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
I'm not sure I'd call it balanced, Ross Douthat is a conservative and it shows:
>But the internet industry is also part of a wider elite culture that is trending in the opposite direction, becoming more feminized and feminist, and inclined to view male-dominated enclaves with great suspicion.
>But Damore also made reasonable points about different ways to pursue diversity and the costs and benefits thereof, in an earnest and dialogic style that a healthy corporate culture would have found a way to answer without swiftly giving him the ax.
That first quote is pure perception from someone looking through conservative glasses. And the second is just a farce. There's no "healthy corporate culture" that would tolerate a memo like this. It's a corporation, it's work, the idea that someone should be able to send a manifesto which not only criticizes their employer but does it while they're facing a lawsuit and is explicitly political is crazy. Leave that stuff for the other 8 hours of your day.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I mean, HN trends conservative, especially on issues of gender, race, diversity, etc. so not surprised Douthat is considered a sensible, middle-of-the-road writer here. Him and David Brooks are among the more reasonable conservatives out there, so I'm not lambasting their writing - just pointing out the biases in play.
I think both conservative and HN take issue with that statement.
I'm glad I refreshed before commenting, because you just expressed my sentiment far more articulately than I was about to.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#46At last a balanced story on the topic. The discussions online on this topic have been mind numbing - quoting out of context, ad hominem attacks, every bad form of arguments listed in PG's essay[1]. Twitter is the worst. Almost makes me want to build a better debating platform. [1] - http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
[deleted]
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#47> But since the usual way to reintegrate the sexes is to have them marry one another and raise kids, what Silicon Valley probably needs right now more than either workplace anti-microaggression training or an alt-right underground is a basic friendliness to family, pregnancy and child rearing. Prediction: this will be viciously misinterpreted on twitter as Douthat calling for women to stay at home and raise babies.
He's calling for a reintegration of the sexes through marriage and children. While I wouldn't put words in his mouth as to "stay at home", he is for sure calling on women to raise babies. His repeated references to women as childbearers in the following paragraph don't help. The author appears to be stating that the solution to sexism is to have women marry the sexists and have their babies.
>The author appears to be stating that the solution to sexism is to have women marry the sexists and have their babies.
I didn't get that interpretation at all. The way I understood it, he was saying that there are differences between men and women -- some biological in origin, some social -- and the solution requires we acknowledge these differences instead of pretending they don't exist.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> nature simply is, and doesn't tell us what ought to be A lot of studies have probe the opposite (recent studies, not old ones). > I have trouble understanding why we are approaching the issue from this angle. Because you have cases like Norway, one of the most genre equality countries, where the ratios or men/women in tech are even worse that less genre equality countries. And the most accepted theory for this is b…
>A lot of studies have probe the opposite (recent studies, not old ones). You should familiarise yourself with the philosophical basis of the is/ought distinction. There is no good reason to assume that scientific inquiry, which tells us a fact about the world in any way tells us what we should want or should do. Scientific evidence is a tool to evaluate whether we are effectively pursuing our normative values. Scien…
> You should familiarise yourself with the philosophical basis of the is/ought distinction.
don't assume I am not. You could be making a mistake
> there is no good reason to assume that scientific inquiry, which tells us a fact about the world in any way tells us what we should want or should do.
actually the scientific community has this into their theories. There are two factors: biological factors and the environment. At they beginning they weren't sure about the biological factors so they make test in one day old infants. And there is a high correlation between genre and interest even with one day old.
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> His repeated references to women as childbearers Pardon me, but this is in(s)ane. WHO ELSE BUT WOMEN BEARS CHILDREN? Apologies, but I had to get that out of my system.
You reminded me of that great scene in Life of Brian where Stan wants to be known as Loretta and wants the right to have babies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObBA2wH5l0
Brilliantly apt!
Re: Google’s War Over the Sexes
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that is precisely what I said! Developing countries are egalitarian out of necessity. For them economic emancipation is principally important, and just by accident lifts women and minorities up. We have grown a little too soft it seems. Our (western) over-emphasis of freedom of choice is actually segregating us. We're giving in to our worst instincts and then claim that they are biological facts that we cannot es…
"Developing countries are egalitarian" I have to wonder what you think is meant by the words egalitarian and developing.
I understand egalitarianism in real material terms. The ability to shape your own future as your wish, upward mobility, a fundamental sense of optimisim about your future prospects, and so forth.
This is very much present in developing countries, whereas people in large swathes of the developed world seem to be preoccupied lamenting their own insecurities and limitations on all sides of the political spectrum.
I think a good deal of Westerners would do well to spend some of their time in a developing country that is on the economic upswing if they still think that the rest of the world is lacking in political or cultural regards.